Again, I never suggested that anyone removed ALL blame from the NHL.

That said, they arent getting enough of it. Its not about more or less. The blame is equal. Please get the point this time.
- systemtool

The blame is not equal.

And assigning equal blame to events that happened in 04 is idiotic. Please get the point this time.

Why? Because the owners own the league and can basically do whatever they want. The players are not their business partners which is how they act, they are simply employees. Most owners are losing money, all players make money. The players need to make a little less to make the the league as a whole viable.
- Homer

Most owners are losing money because they have teams in markets they shouldnt be in.

Ek is usually right once a year!

You really waited till the last second with this one ek?



- Cfser

Hmmmmmmmmm...

The blame is not equal.

And assigning equal blame to events that happened in 04 is idiotic. Please get the point this time.
- Pen15

I did get the point. The common denominator is Bettman, not Fehr.

Its a trend, and historical evidence that the NHL and Bettmans priority is money and not the game itself. Just like the players.

Dont be daft. Bettman and his NHL owners have proven they have never wanted a lock out or a season lost. Its never happened in their history until Fehr came along. Clearly he is more to blame.
- systemtool

I'm on the owners side but did you forget about the lockout in 04? Unless you're being funny

Edit: guess u were being sarcastic

Most owners are losing money because they have teams in markets they shouldnt be in.
- systemtool

That...or until October, players were raking in 57% of the leagues revenue...

Pretty hard to be profitable given that business model. But I'm not an economics major or anything.

I don't know if anyone has asked about this, but with the possible buyout of a player, do you think you could remove a players cap hit if the player was already bought out? For example, could this leafs remove Colby Armstrongs cap hit? I would think some GM's may push for this. The Leafs bought out Colby this season, should they be punished with his cap hit for this season becasue they didn't wait for the new CBA?

I did get the point. The common denominator is Bettman, not Fehr.

Its a trend, and historical evidence that the NHL and Bettmans priority is money and not the game itself. Just like the players.
- systemtool

Yes, the NHL needs money for league survival, the players for greed

That's an irrational behaviour though. CBA negotiations are very distinct from one another...so assigning blame based on a previous experience is a major fallacy. I think you have to treat each negotiation separately and judge it based on the actions of both sides.

And if we do that with this negotiation, it is clear the owners have moved a lot more to resolution than the PA has.
- Pen15

If you want to ignore the obvious trend, thats fine. I choose not to. The past is good indicator of what someone is all about.

I did get the point. The common denominator is Bettman, not Fehr.

Its a trend, and historical evidence that the NHL and Bettmans priority is money and not the game itself. Just like the players.
- systemtool

You're right, the priority for BOTH sides is money.

The only difference is that the owners agenda better aligns with the fans (a healthier league).

My source, who has connections in Nashville and buffalo say this might get done today.

Yes, the NHL needs money for league survival, the players for greed
- Homer

The NHL had its most successful season ever. They arent barely hanging on to survival. The league is healthy, and would be healthier with teams removed from Florida, Phoenix etc.

That...or until October, players were raking in 57% of the leagues revenue...

Pretty hard to be profitable given that business model. But I'm not an economics major or anything.
- Pen15

Well said... Buffalo is clearly a hockey market and they lost 5mil last year

You're right, the priority for BOTH sides is money.

The only difference is that the owners agenda better aligns with the fans (a healthier league).
- Pen15

There is no difference. Both their agendas are pissing me off just the same. I dont favour one side over the other.

The NHL had its most successful season ever. They arent barely hanging on to survival. The league is healthy, and would be healthier with teams removed from Florida, Phoenix etc.
- systemtool

Maybe in revenue but not profit. Why did only 8 of the 30 teams make a profit then? I've read other articles that said only 3 teams made money, although I think 8 is more accurate.

If you want to ignore the obvious trend, thats fine. I choose not to. The past is good indicator of what someone is all about.
- systemtool

Yes...I choose to ignore a pointless trend that has nothing to do with the proceeding negotiations.

What have the owners done during this lockout that has been so horrendus? Have they negotiated in bad faith? Have they picked and choosed what parts of offers they will/will not accept? Have they forced the other party to negotiate with themselves?

What have they done to deserve equal blame to the PA?

My source, who has connections in Nashville and buffalo say this might get done today.
- Buffalo--Sabres

You must have good sources

Again, I never suggested that anyone removed ALL blame from the NHL.

That said, they arent getting enough of it. Its not about more or less. The blame is equal. Please get the point this time.
- systemtool

But it is not equal.. One side keeps making offers, the other side doesn't.. How do you place blame at 50/50 if only one side is trying to make a difference?

The NHL had its most successful season ever. They arent barely hanging on to survival. The league is healthy, and would be healthier with teams removed from Florida, Phoenix etc.
- systemtool

Revenue is vastly different from profit.

I think the league is adding the buyout concession to appease the wealthy teams that would rather have their arenas packed with fans right now instead of going along with this lockout B.S.

More than likely...the Flyers, Rangers, Habs, etc. have lost a lot more revenue so far in this lockout compared to the small market teams.

There is no difference. Both their agendas are pissing me off just the same. I dont favour one side over the other.
- systemtool

That's a fair, emotional statement from a common fan.

And whether you choose to see it or not, in this lockout and the last, the owners interests are more aligned with the fans...

Revenue is vastly different from profit.
- Pen15

I never said anything about Revenue, but revenue is related to profit.

But it is not equal.. One side keeps making offers, the other side doesn't.. How do you place blame at 50/50 if only one side is trying to make a difference?
- PatC80

He's basing it off a grudge he has from 2004.

I never said anything about Revenue, but revenue is related to profit.
- systemtool

yes....it's only one half of the equation.

Just because they had record revenues does not mean the business is profitable.

EDIT: and what did you mean by 'it's most successful season'??

But it is not equal.. One side keeps making offers, the other side doesn't.. How do you place blame at 50/50 if only one side is trying to make a difference?
- PatC80

They havent spoken in weeks, either side, until the last day or two. How can you not blame both sides?