Bettman is one of the best negotiators ever in Sport's history. Always 3 steps ahead of his adversary.
- Feeling_Glucky

So far ahead he sacrifices seasons.

Depends on your definition of it. If losing seasons is the goal, hes a legend.

So far ahead he loses seasons.
- systemtool

players and NHLPA are dumb as they come. They actually won the deal in terms of average salaries etc.

players and NHLPA are dumb as they come. They actually won the deal in terms of average salaries etc.
- Feeling_Glucky

I agree. But the difference is it goes both ways for me. In that we lost a season so they could fix the economics and owners get their way, yet it fixed nothing, they went around their rules and spent more than they could afford, made it worse for themselves.

Dumb as they come, but include both sides.

Exactly, its the process both sides are playing out. Both sides are just as guilty.

How many CBA negotiations have you seen that resulted in a season lost, that didnt have Bettman and the NHL owners involved?
- systemtool

I understand your position. And both sides are to blame. But Fehr has lied openly and hidden his agendas to the fans. The NHL has been honest with an open agenda. It is pretty easy to realize why there are so many pro-NHL posters.

I understand your position. And both sides are to blame. But Fehr has lied openly and hidden his agendas to the fans. The NHL has been honest with an open agenda. It is pretty easy to realize why there are so many pro-NHL posters.
- Thesource

I understand the hate on for Fehr. Ive acknowledged that. But this being Bettmans third lockout, with a season already lost under his resume, its not easy understanding how anyone can be pro-NHL/Bettman.

There is reason to hate and distrust both sides.

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Term of #NHL offer remains 10 years; extremely detailed proposal, basically a full CBA tendered; NHL updated board via email last night

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Term of #NHL offer remains 10 years; extremely detailed proposal, basically a full CBA tendered; NHL updated board via email last night
- Feeling_Glucky

Lets hope this one sticks. I still think we'll see a season. There will be a lot of pressure on both sides to get a deal done.

So far ahead he sacrifices seasons.

Depends on your definition of it. If losing seasons is the goal, hes a legend.
- systemtool

And a large reason for this, as he alluded to, is the NHLPA leadership has been a revolving door of questionable people. How do you ever build a working relationship with various leaders of a (insert feelings here) union.

Lets hope this one sticks. I still think we'll see a season. There will be a lot of pressure on both sides to get a deal done.
- systemtool

agreed

And a large reason for this, as he alluded to, is the NHLPA leadership has been a revolving door of questionable people. How do you ever build a working relationship with various leaders of a (insert feelings here) union.
- Thesource

Nobody has been able to build any kind of relationship with Bettman. Its only been Goodenow and Fehr that have been in CBA negotiations as leaders. Saskin came and went quickly and never had to negotiate with Bettman.

You cant blame one side, when the other side has done nothing but lose games.

I understand the hate on for Fehr. Ive acknowledged that. But this being Bettmans third lockout, with a season already lost under his resume, its not easy understanding how anyone can be pro-NHL/Bettman.

There is reason to hate and distrust both sides.
- systemtool

The funny thing is. I don't think people like bettman (NHL). They have simply moved from completely and utterly hating him ... To "meh. He's not terrible".

Lets hope this one sticks. I still think we'll see a season. There will be a lot of pressure on both sides to get a deal done.
- systemtool

The very least it should accomplish is forcing the NHLPA to finally submit a full and detailed proposal. Knowing deFuhr and the NHLPA they will not accept anything offered by the league, but now the HAVE to make a full counterproposal. Fail that, and the whole blame will fall on the players.

This is the players last chance to get one more concession from the league and be deemed the saviors of the lock-out.

I agree. But the difference is it goes both ways for me. In that we lost a season so they could fix the economics and owners get their way, yet it fixed nothing, they went around their rules and spent more than they could afford, made it worse for themselves.

Dumb as they come, but include both sides.
- systemtool

For the most part the game is better (or would have been better) for having the lockout last time and that showed on top line revenue. If anyone is saying "well if the owners don't want to have contracts over 5 years, just don't give them out" that won't work. That would require the collusion of 29 ownership groups. Team 1 may not want to offer said contracts but they may have to as a way to get the talent needed to win if Teams 2 through 29 may. The same logic can be applied to OPEC and how they seldom can control the price of oil beyond the natural supply/demand curve.
They couldn't fix the whole league in one CBA. This is just a continuation in the right direction of a viable league. They have the league chugging ahead on top line revenue and now the focus is just on achieving a healthier bottom line income.

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Term of #NHL offer remains 10 years; extremely detailed proposal, basically a full CBA tendered; NHL updated board via email last night
- Feeling_Glucky

@SunGarrioch My sources say owners have privately informed Bettman cancelling the season is not an acceptable option.

The funny thing is. I don't think people like bettman (NHL). They have simply moved from completely and utterly hating him ... To "meh. He's not terrible".
- Thesource

Thats a shame.

I think both Fehr and Bettman need to go. Bring in two new leaders on each side, start fresh, and build a relationship that way. Too much baggage with Bettman, and not enough understanding/respect of the game from Fehr.

GOOD JOB ON THE SCOOP EK!
ATTABOY

Congrats on getting this out first EK.

I normally hate on you for all the crap you make up but this time you earned some praise.

@SunGarrioch My sources say owners have privately informed Bettman cancelling the season is not an acceptable option.
- PatC80

And that folks, is what I have been saying all along. Losing the season is not something all owners want to do. They are not all on the same page.

Nobody has been able to build any kind of relationship with Bettman. Its only been Goodenow and Fehr that have been in CBA negotiations as leaders. Saskin came and went quickly and never had to negotiate with Bettman.

You cant blame one side, when the other side has done nothing but lose games.
- systemtool

Fair enough. And you are probably right, he could be one of those people that you simply can't work with. But I've watched three lockouts happen now. And I don't hate him as much as the NHLPA (not the players, or Fehr... But simply he NHLPA)

You must have good sources
- Homer

Pretty good I would say. The Nashville sources however were expecting to play the day after turkey day. They were to be "ready" to come to practice. Now look where we are.

For the most part the game is better (or would have been better) for having the lockout last time and that showed on top line revenue. If anyone is saying "well if the owners don't want to have contracts over 5 years, just don't give them out" that won't work. That would require the collusion of 29 ownership groups. Team 1 may not want to offer said contracts but they may have to as a way to get the talent needed to win if Teams 2 through 29 may. The same logic can be applied to OPEC and how they seldom can control the price of oil beyond the natural supply/demand curve.
They couldn't fix the whole league in one CBA. This is just a continuation in the right direction of a viable league. They have the league chugging ahead on top line revenue and now the focus is just on achieving a healthier bottom line income.
- tbone31

You dont need a post that long. Its common sense.

Both sides just want whats best for them, not for the game.

And that folks, is what I have been saying all along. Losing the season is not something all owners want to do. They are not all on the same page.
- systemtool

It could still happen if the PA rejects this latest offer, but other than that, you're right. The Owners have much more to lose if a season is lost.

Thats a shame.

I think both Fehr and Bettman need to go. Bring in two new leaders on each side, start fresh, and build a relationship that way. Too much baggage with Bettman, and not enough understanding/respect of the game from Fehr.
- systemtool

Any deal where the players accept less than 57% of HRR is a win for Bettman.

All Fehr is doing is pushing back enough to make sure the players keep as much as possible.

You dont need a post that long. Its common sense.

Both sides just want whats best for them, not for the game.
- systemtool

Thats a shame.

I think both Fehr and Bettman need to go. Bring in two new leaders on each side, start fresh, and build a relationship that way. Too much baggage with Bettman, and not enough understanding/respect of the game from Fehr.
- systemtool

Agreed. And if the players want this ... Agree to a 10 year CBA. Bettman will be gone. Agree to 5. And you are flipping a coin.