Trust me, I know all of this very well. I understand that with rest they can feel better.. but the minute you get back at it, you are back to where you were before. Now I dont know Grossmanns exact issues.. but from reading about certain treatments and what not (and the fact that he didnt undergo surgery) his knees are a chronic issue. Surgery wouldnt correct his problem, but may make it more managable. He also could have just gotten lubricating injections and worked with unloader braces (which with Bill mentioning about bulky braces, I assumes was the choice they made). Kimmo wearing down over time is different than Grossmann IMO. Doesnt mean it wont happen, just that it would be a different way.
- jak521

I do trust you, you know your stuff

kimmo signing is CYA after last yr. maybe there's a guy in europe who never signed over here after being drafted or matured too late to be considered. homer has to get creative here.
- isaiah520

I agree. May need to scour the College ranks or hope for a Schultz type situation with another team. First thing I say we do is keep the 1st and 2nd picks and draft dmen unless they and a Schenn can be parlayed into an impact young dman. It really seems like it might be patchwork for a while on D, but what you have to hope for is desperation that forces a team to make a trade that addresses their forward needs and our D.

Here are some notable top UFA defensemen (as of right now) for 2014, 2015 and 2016:

2014
Jay Bouwmeester
Dan Boyle
Dion Phaneuf
Andrei Markov
Joni Pitkanen
Tom Gilbert
Andrej Meszaros
Kyle Quincey
Brooks Orpik
Willie Mitchell
Nik Hjalmarsson
Kris Letang
Dan Girardi
Dennis Seidenberg
Stephane Robidas

2015
Mike Green
Paul Martin
Keith Ballard
Zbynek Michalek
Marc Staal
Johnny Boychuk
Eric Brewer
Brad Stuart

2016
Brian Campbell
Brent Seabrook
Keith Yandle
Dustin Byfuglien
Alex Goligoski
Kevin Bieksa
Dan Hamhuis
Braydon Coburn
Anton Volchenkov
Mark Giordano
Erik Johnson
Luke Schenn
Nick Grossmann

Kinda weak until 2016 but I expect some extensions to those players so the amount that actually hit UFA will be much less. A trade will be the route for a #1/2 dman.
- NickTheKid87

lets draft and develop our own guy

lets draft and develop our own guy
- isaiah520

Hard to see how the guys in 2016 are better than 2014, 2015

lets draft and develop our own guy
- isaiah520

Also another option. A lot cheaper too although it probably won't have an immediate impact. Hopefully Ghost turns into a solid top 4 guy.

i think THOR's was far worse - a blast from near the point and just a regular jock i assume. Goalies all wear double (and sometimes triple) cups these days. i just got hit there 2 weeks ago. it's the worst.
- hammarby31

I know what you mean.. I have the best kind of cup you can buy and I got a close range slapper in the junk the other day.. dear God I felt sick for like 5 mins.

I agree. May need to scour the College ranks or hope for a Schultz type situation with another team. First thing I say we do is keep the 1st and 2nd picks and draft dmen unless they and a Schenn can be parlayed into an impact young dman. It really seems like it might be patchwork for a while on D, but what you have to hope for is desperation that forces a team to make a trade that addresses their forward needs and our D.
- Hextall271

hang on to those early round picks. we can't reach for dmen, but if its real close between plyrs, get the dman, of course. there may be some unforeseen opps on d, but patchwork is likely the course over the nxt season or 2.

Hard to see how the guys in 2016 are better than 2014, 2015
- strongsupporter

patience required when drafting

Joni Pitkanen
- NickTheKid87

There's your new #1.

There's your new #1.
- jmatchett

I thought he would be at one point. I think we all did. Another disappointment.

Also another option. A lot cheaper too although it probably won't have an immediate impact. Hopefully Ghost turns into a solid top 4 guy.
- NickTheKid87

this is really the rub when people are using THIS as a legit alternative to potential flyers blue line help.

1. there is no guarantee there are great dmen prospects in any draft come draft time, and if there ARE, who knows if the flyers are in a position to draft one

2. if they are, no guaratee they develop as expected

3. even if they DO, it's usually AT LEAST one year removed that they really contribute to the same affect as a solid F/A

it's one thing to stumble upon a really good blue line prospect in the later picks in rd 1 or 2 (or 3) and have him develop over time and become the foundation of your blue line...it's a complete other thing to COUNT on that to happen, even if it's your main focus.

hang on to those early round picks. we can't reach for dmen, but if its real close between plyrs, get the dman, of course. there may be some unforeseen opps on d, but patchwork is likely the course over the nxt season or 2.
- isaiah520

The patchwork part scares me after I think we had a championship level d at the beginning of last year. You really do need a solid top 3 at least to have a shot IMO.

When looking for this #1 defenseman, it is useful to review where our guys rate on career performance against current NHL defensemen. There are few players that are far and away better than Coby, Mez, Kimmo.

Also, this year Weber has no points this year and Suter is a minus 7.
- strongsupporter

Fantastic point...

A true #1 allstar d-man is not a common player to have. Look through the list of top d-men on teams...

Ana: Beauchemin
Bruins: Chara
Buffalo: Ehrhoff/Myers
CGY: JBow
Canes: Pitkanen
Hawks: Keith/ Seabrook
Avs: E Johnson
CBJ: Jack Johnson
Dal: Goligoski/Robidas
Det: kronwall
EDM: Whitney
FLA: Campbell
LA: Doughty
MIN: Suter
MTL: Markov
NSH: Weber
NJ: doesnt even have a clear cut top guy
NYI: Streit
NYR: Girardi
OTT: Karlsson
Phi: Kimmo
PHX: OEL/Yandle
PIT: Letang
SJ: Boyle
STL: Pietrangelo
TB: Carle/ Hedman?
TOR: Phaneuf
VAN: Edler
WSH: Green
WPG: Enstrom/Buff

hang on to those early round picks. we can't reach for dmen, but if its real close between plyrs, get the dman, of course. there may be some unforeseen opps on d, but patchwork is likely the course over the nxt season or 2.
- isaiah520

for my same reasoning i posted above, drafting for need in the early rounds (top 5 picks withstanding) is really not the way to go. in a sport where the MAJORITY of drafted players develop in other leagues for some time, drafting the best player on your board should be the way to go

WSH: Green

- jak521

Point taken, but I think Carlson may have overtaken Green. Again, what could have been...

Is the Flyers top 7/8 dmen for 13/14 when healthy really that bad?


Timo/Coburn
Mez/Schenn
Grossman/Gus
Gervais, Bourdon

this is really the rub when people are using THIS as a legit alternative to potential flyers blue line help.

1. there is no guarantee there are great dmen prospects in any draft come draft time, and if there ARE, who knows if the flyers are in a position to draft one

2. if they are, no guaratee they develop as expected

3. even if they DO, it's usually AT LEAST one year removed that they really contribute to the same affect as a solid F/A

it's one thing to stumble upon a really good blue line prospect in the later picks in rd 1 or 2 (or 3) and have him develop over time and become the foundation of your blue line...it's a complete other thing to COUNT on that to happen, even if it's your main focus.
- eshake

I agree. Drafting a guy is all well and good but that shouldn't stop you from going out and acquiring players you need to make the team better more immediately as well as for the future.

Is the Flyers top 7/8 dmen for 13/14 when healthy really that bad?


Timo/Coburn
Mez/Schenn
Grossman/Gus
Gervais, Bourdon
- jstross

Not at all. It's possible that Gus will develop into a true top 6 defenseman as well. A lot can happen in a years time.

I thought he would be at one point. I think we all did. Another disappointment.
- NickTheKid87

All he needed was a longer stick. Everyone on this thread has agreed to that in years past. Longer stick. That's all it was.

Fantastic point...

A true #1 allstar d-man is not a common player to have. Look through the list of top d-men on teams...


- jak521

It's more about defense depth, cohesion and getting a good mix of stay at home guys and puck movers than it is about having a "true" #1/big name player.

The patchwork part scares me after I think we had a championship level d at the beginning of last year. You really do need a solid top 3 at least to have a shot IMO.
- Hextall271

for the most part, I agree and that's been my frustration. FA mkt for this position is likely fools gold.

Anyone ever get up to the Prudential Center for Flyers - Devils games? Thinking of heading up next Friday and wanted to know if anyone had been to the Prudential Center and what they thought of it as a Flyers fan.

for my same reasoning i posted above, drafting for need in the early rounds (top 5 picks withstanding) is really not the way to go. in a sport where the MAJORITY of drafted players develop in other leagues for some time, drafting the best player on your board should be the way to go
- eshake

in the cases of Hamilton and maata, they were the nxt guys drafted after us...would not have been a reach. on the other hand, ghost may end up as good as maata, so...

Anyone ever get up to the Prudential Center for Flyers - Devils games? Thinking of heading up next Friday and wanted to know if anyone had been to the Prudential Center and what they thought of it as a Flyers fan.
- johndewar

I went last January. I thought it was a nice stadium all in all. Easy to get too (via train) and everything was state-of-art of course. I would recommend going.

I went last January. I thought it was a nice stadium all in all. Easy to get too (via train) and everything was state-of-art of course. I would recommend going.
- NickTheKid87

what are the prices compared to flyers?