Cross Henrik Lundqvist off the list of goalies the Flyers would want.


- Scoob

haven't you heard? he's tired and overworked so all is forgiven.

on top of all that, both coby and carle needed contracts, so something had to give. when you're trading richards/carter, somewhere in the equation, a practicable option on d was needed. that's where i kinda lost faith in homer and stopped having high expectations.
- isaiah520

I just think they really need to get it out of their head that they can win, or build a team with their pocket books. The salary cap, and thus more focused emphasis on drafting eliminated that.

Holmgren/Snider have made some stupid moves with the bad contracts. That needs to end and there are no excuses for giving lengthy or really overpaid contracts to marginal players. I have faith in him, and we will see what he does this summer. What pissed me off, is like what you say he had the ability with Richards/Carter to try and at least help on the D core, knowing the situations/age of Pronger and Timonen. He didnt do it. When he had the chance to not even reach by taking Hamilton over Coots, he ignored the need for all round star level d-men on defense yet again choosing to focus on offense.

D-men are a premium in this league, and they cost more than forwards.

The issue now to me is, its even harder to bring in established all round d-men. Teams dont trade these guys. Or you will pay absolutely out of your nose and ass to get them. Holmgren is limited to a degree, and that I can understand. The Flyers dont need anymore mediocrity on defense. They need the star power, which is damn hard to get unless its via draft.


Guys like Buff for example, teams would be willing to trade them for a reason. They have too many question marks in their game.

Edit: Holmgren and the organization put themselves in a poop hole imo. Now lets see how they get out of it. The days of buying a team, or filling crucial needs with FA are dead.

i love the DET style; emphasis on speed, skill and possession; passes tape to tape; controlling the pace. sometimes it looks like they get pushed around, but if we are so worried about that, bring in a min salary guy for certain teams, if need be.
- isaiah520

Meh, what made me cheer for this team at the start, and what I think most people think of when they think "Flyers" is...

A group of maybe not the most talented guys, but a group that gives their all, works hard in the trenches and plays with heart consistently. Thats all I ask for. Pure talent is overrated.

Yes, a slightly better player at this point. JVR scored at a 30-goal pace this year after the lockout, and was just under that pace in the first six weeks of last season before a slew of injuries basically ruined his season.

Ryan isn't an "average" player. He's a very good player, despite a down year this season after the lockout. He'll go out and get his 30-some goals again next year if healthy. But he's not a superstar. He doesn't always use his size to his advantage, he is streaky and just adequate defensively. Also, he would not be likely to produce dramatically more playing with Giroux and Voracek than he has with Getzlaf and Perry as his primary linemates. He is what he is: a fine player who has some limitations and is not someone for whom it would make sense to expend all your most valuable trading assets to acquire.
- bmeltzer

I agree he has limitations (may be able to say that about most players), I don't think he's a $7 million dollar a year player by any stretch, but JVR, yes, was on a 30 goal pace in a truncated season, (but that doesn't equate to a "real" 30 goal season in the books, but again, JVR only has realistically a 20 goal season to his credit, (granted he has the skill and potential to produce more), but I've seen a lot of Anaheim games the last few seasons, Ryan played a lot on the 2nd line & 2nd power play unit (moving Selanne up for balance), not sure he's played exclusively with Getzlaf & Perry, in terms of mitigating his production.
again, I wouldn't expend all tradable assets to acquire him either, (it would depend on what the desired package would be), especially due to the uncertain nature of our D.
I just feel, as a player, he's worth more than (slightly), a younger player whom exudes potential, with more to prove than proven.
4 - 30 goal seasons, albeit streaky, is still a proven NHL commodity, that many teams wouldn't say "no thanks" to.

I just think they really need to get it out of their head that they can win, or build a team with their pocket books. The salary cap, and thus more focused emphasis on drafting eliminated that.

Holmgren/Snider have made some stupid moves with the bad contracts. That needs to end and there are no excuses for giving lengthy or really overpaid contracts to marginal players. I have faith in him, and we will see what he does this summer.

The issue now to me is, its even harder to bring in established all round d-men. Teams dont trade these guys. Or you will pay absolutely out of your nose and ass to get them. Holmgren is limited to a degree, and that I can understand. The Flyers dont need anymore mediocrity on defense. They need the star power, which is damn hard to get unless its via draft.

Guys like Buff for example, teams would be willing to trade them for a reason. They have too many question marks in their game.
- flyer_nutter

i'd trade up for a dman we like in the draft or trade for a guy like mcbain and hope he does a 180 like luke did for most of the great 48 we just played. there really aren't many other options that don't involve ripping apart the team. i'd prefer that they have a guy like pulock in house ,but if it's a forward we draft, we have to hit the home run, cause we're gonna need to trade one of our other forwards. one of the reasons i like barkov is that he's more likely to step in sooner and he has ideal combo of size/skill. of course, these are just projections and the crapshoot element is there.

I agree with this. Hartnell couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a pass.
- FlyersGrace

The Flyers first goal of the season came from a great pass from Hartnell.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Ngw&feature=youtube_gdata

i'd trade up for a dman we like in the draft or trade for a guy like mcbain and hope he does a 180 like luke did for most of the great 48 we just played. there really aren't many other options that don't involve ripping apart the team. i'd prefer that they have a guy like pulock in house ,but if it's a forward we draft, we have to hit the home run, cause we're gonna need to trade one of our other forwards. one of the reasons i like barkov is that he's more likely to step in sooner and he has ideal combo of size/skill. of course, these are just projections and the crapshoot element is there.
- isaiah520

The thing to me with McBain or guys like that, is I would be willing to take a gamble.

However I think the odds are probably he just ends up being another talented guy the team employs, gives a big contract to, but has no damn idea how he will play a given night or playoff series.

Its why I want nothing to do with Johnson from Colorado. The options for young d-men are limited. Im excited to see what Holmgren does this summer, although I wouldnt be suprised if he didnt even have the option to do anything. Thats why draft, and building a complete team that isnt one dimensional via the draft is so important.

Meh, what made me cheer for this team at the start, and what I think most people think of when they think "Flyers" is...

A group of maybe not the most talented guys, but a group that gives their all, works hard in the trenches and plays with heart consistently. Thats all I ask for. Pure talent is overrated.
- flyer_nutter

i've been a flyer fan for 43 yrs -yea i'm old - and i loved the physical hard working guys. but give DET credit for guys like draper, drake and helm. can't win it all w/o guys like that and the wings have them. plus, their stars are usually gritty or learn to be. one thing that irks me is off target passing- tired of watching it...esp from the backline. thank heaven for guys like G and Jake.

i've been a flyer fan for 43 yrs -yea i'm old - and i loved the physical hard working guys. but give DET credit for guys like draper, drake and helm. can't win it all w/o guys like that and the wings have them. plus, their stars are usually gritty or learn to be. one thing that irks me is off target passing- tired of watching it...esp from the backline. thank heaven for guys like G and Jake.
- isaiah520

Helm is a great player. I remember that one series against Pittsburgh I believe he held the puck in the offensive zone during the PK for almost a whole minute or something.

He was born about a 30 minute drive from where I live. Damn municipality has a sign to even let you know that

Bill what do you think about a move to get a guy like Gaustad?

Dont know what it would take, but I think he would be a perfect fit on the 4th line.

Wins a ton of faceoffs, is huge, pretty limited offensively, but can put up 15 points a season, and would be a mainstay on the PK.


(this is also a player I have wanted them to try to get for some time for the fourth line lol)
- jak521

Gaustad is a 3M + player who isn't liekly to accpet a 4th line role. Not a fit for the 4th line.

Helm is a great player. I remember that one series against Pittsburgh I believe he held the puck in the offensive zone during the PK for almost a whole minute or something.

He was born about a 30 minute drive from where I live. Damn municipality has a sign to even let you know that
- flyer_nutter

really a miracle to make it in the nhl when you think of it. tons of guys playing intn'l hockey that look pretty good, but aren't really candidates for the league.

The Flyers first goal of the season came from a great pass from Hartnell.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Ngw&feature=youtube_gdata
- Feanor

There are highlight reel plays to be sure. And let's be honest, if he kept making plays like that all year, we'd be in the playoffs and having a different conversation. You're right though, in that Hartnell has skills, but what killed us was sloppy everyday passes that ended up in loss of puck possession by not just Hartnell but the entire team. Maybe they were out of synch, maybe they were tired, but I diddn't see any real improvement until they got some serious practice time in, which was half-way through the short season anyway.

EDM has made it known that they would trade down from #7.
- bradleyc4

Stay at #11 or move down to later in round 1

Love your avatar.


- Flyskippy

I thought of using the Michael Bolton character.

Perfectly reasonable to give him a 2 year deal imo. Along with a guy like Streit.

Saving cap space is good and all, but its going to leave Holmgren sitting with a thumb up his ass when he could have signed a player to make the team better, but he chose to just "save cap space".

Remember the attitude this team seemed to play with when they had the year of the suspensions? When they had Lappy and when Pronger was playing? They need that back.
- flyer_nutter

When exactly have the Flyers gone the save the Cap space route?

The Flyers first goal of the season came from a great pass from Hartnell.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Ngw&feature=youtube_gdata
- Feanor

Yep, and the rest of the games? I bet you could find many, many more examples of him pooping the play versus making it with a pass.
That said Hartnell did have a down season and was injured so I think he will re-bound. I just think he needs to learn to lead a player with his pass... Maybe he should take up skeet shooting instead of golf in the off season.

Gaustad is a 3M + player who isn't liekly to accpet a 4th line role. Not a fit for the 4th line.
- MJL

Echoes my feeling about him. Good player and very tough to play against but he's not a fit for Flyers' budget or the specific role they'd need him to play.

when a team has a consistent philosophy, it's easier replicate every phase of the org, from drafting all the way down the line. people often forget that before he got concussed, pronger had 3 surgeries in what he called his toughest off season ever. iow, your point is mitigated by the fact that a 37 yr old dman already in physical decline can't be the fulcrum for the team's fortunes w/o a plan B, imo. there was none and w/ the premium on dmen in this league, i think that's a fair issue to raise.
- isaiah520

This is the same plan B thoughts as the past off season. Tell me what Boston's plan B is if Chara get's hurt? How about LA's plan B if Doughty get's hurt? Or Nashville's plan B is Weber get's hurt? There is no plan B to replace players like Pronger!

Yep, and the rest of the games? I bet you could find many, many more examples of him pooping the play versus making it with a pass.
That said Hartnell did have a down season and was injured so I think he will re-bound. I just think he needs to learn to lead a player with his pass... Maybe he should take up skeet shooting instead of golf in the off season.

- FlyersGrace

Being in a little better shape next year would also help him. He was not in game shape when the season started, suffered the broken foot and then was really behind the eight ball to catch up conditioning-wise until late in the season.

This is the same foolish plan B thoughts as the past off season. Tell me what Boston's plan B is if Chara get's hurt? How about LA's plan B if Doughty get's hurt? Or Nashville's plan B is Weber get's hurt? There is no plan B to replace players like Pronger!
- MJL

And this is why we need cloning.
Bettman get on that!

Being in a little better shape next year would also help him. He was not in game shape when the season started, suffered the broken foot and then was really behind the eight ball to catch up conditioning-wise until late in the season.
- bmeltzer

So Hartnell needs to take up the Biathlon (cross country skiing and shooting), only problem is that the targets don't move...

on top of all that, both coby and carle needed contracts, so something had to give. when you're trading richards/carter, somewhere in the equation, a practicable option on d was needed. that's where i kinda lost faith in homer and stopped having high expectations.
- isaiah520

I think that's crazy. This is the first Season in how long where there was a deficiency on defense? You have to look at the track record. And this year is not the norm for a Holmgren team. Are you saying that he should have gotten a defenseman in the Richards/Carter trades? That player has to be available, and a team has to be willing to trade him.

i'd trade up for a dman we like in the draft or trade for a guy like mcbain and hope he does a 180 like luke did for most of the great 48 we just played. there really aren't many other options that don't involve ripping apart the team. i'd prefer that they have a guy like pulock in house ,but if it's a forward we draft, we have to hit the home run, cause we're gonna need to trade one of our other forwards. one of the reasons i like barkov is that he's more likely to step in sooner and he has ideal combo of size/skill. of course, these are just projections and the crapshoot element is there.
- isaiah520

I like the way you think, Isaiah.

I just think they really need to get it out of their head that they can win, or build a team with their pocket books. The salary cap, and thus more focused emphasis on drafting eliminated that.

Holmgren/Snider have made some stupid moves with the bad contracts. That needs to end and there are no excuses for giving lengthy or really overpaid contracts to marginal players. I have faith in him, and we will see what he does this summer. What pissed me off, is like what you say he had the ability with Richards/Carter to try and at least help on the D core, knowing the situations/age of Pronger and Timonen. He didnt do it. When he had the chance to not even reach by taking Hamilton over Coots, he ignored the need for all round star level d-men on defense yet again choosing to focus on offense.

D-men are a premium in this league, and they cost more than forwards.

The issue now to me is, its even harder to bring in established all round d-men. Teams dont trade these guys. Or you will pay absolutely out of your nose and ass to get them. Holmgren is limited to a degree, and that I can understand. The Flyers dont need anymore mediocrity on defense. They need the star power, which is damn hard to get unless its via draft.


Guys like Buff for example, teams would be willing to trade them for a reason. They have too many question marks in their game.

Edit: Holmgren and the organization put themselves in a poop hole imo. Now lets see how they get out of it. The days of buying a team, or filling crucial needs with FA are dead.
- flyer_nutter

What stupid moves with bad contracts are you referring to. Again with the Richards/Carter trades. That D man has ot be available. Holmgren can't force a team to trade him a top D man.

Every team fills out their team with UFA's.

i've already made and won this so-called argument w/ the posts, facts and logic to back it up. not gonna waste time w/ the site j**koff who's life ambition is to claim victory citing old posts that were an ancient 28 days old w/ conditions unchanged.

#dontwastetimewithaholes