But we have more need for an offensive center because Briere is getting amnestied. The defensive role can be filled by Laughton, Cousins, of a number of cheap UFA options. IMO Schenn will make the better Number 2 Center. Couts makes a better Number 3 center.
- youarewrong

If Couturier reaches his potential and develops the offensive side of his game, to go along with the defensive side. Couturier would be the better choice as a #2 Center, if not a #1 or 1B if you will. A player such as Couturier who can match up and play against any line in any situation, as well as producing offensively. Is always the better choice for your #2 Center over a strictly offensive player such as Schenn. Especially when you have Giroux.

Schenn and Couturier don't have similar skill sets.
- MJL

They have different skill sets no question about that.

I know everyone is down on Coburn & Meszaros. But let's be realistic.

Coburn only played 33 games. Yeah this was probably his worst season ever. But most players on this team had horrible seasons. The thing we all have to recognize about this season is that it is a small sampling of games and Coburn has played a lot in this league for a 28 year old defensemen. Over the past 5 seasons he's eaten 20+ top line defensive minutes a night, and has posted only one minus season (in that time, not counting this season), and he's chipped in an average of just under 25 points per year. That is the markings of a top line #2 defensive guy with some two-way ability (though he does lean more to the defensive side). Were I an opposing GM, I'd probably take most of these deals suggested that are designed to move Coburn. And as that GM I'd have 5 years of consistent play to point to as the reason this 6'5, 28-year old Defensemen with speed can anchor the defensive side of my top pairing for the next 3 years at least. I'm not saying I would not trade him for the right player. But actively TRYING to move him at this point would make the Bobrovsky deal look good.

If Couturier reaches his potential and develops the offensive side of his game, to go along with the defensive side. Couturier would be the better choice as a #2 Center, if not a #1 or 1B if you will. A player such as Couturier who can match up and play against any line in any situation, as well as producing offensively. Is always the better choice for your #2 Center over a strictly offensive player such as Schenn. Especially when you have Giroux.
- MJL

Going to be hard to find out if they don't give Couturier the opportunity to showcase his skills with better wingers.

I know everyone is down on Coburn & Meszaros. But let's be realistic.

Coburn only played 33 games. Yeah this was probably his worst season ever. But most players on this team had horrible seasons. The thing we all have to recognize about this season is that it is a small sampling of games and Coburn has played a lot in this league for a 28 year old defensemen. Over the past 5 seasons he's eaten 20+ top line defensive minutes a night, and has posted only one minus season (in that time, not counting this season), and he's chipped in an average of just under 25 points per year. That is the markings of a top line #2 defensive guy with some two-way ability (though he does lean more to the defensive side). Were I an opposing GM, I'd probably take most of these deals suggested that are designed to move Coburn. And as that GM I'd have 5 years of consistent play to point to as the reason this 6'5, 28-year old Defensemen with speed can anchor the defensive side of my top pairing for the next 3 years at least. I'm not saying I would not trade him for the right player. But actively TRYING to move him at this point would make the Bobrovsky deal look good.
- flyler

I'm not down on either player. Mostly just concerned about Meszaros being and staying healthy. Coburn will bounce back.

Schenn and Couturier don't have similar skill sets.
- MJL

Yes they do. Not identical, but similiar.

If Couturier reaches his potential and develops the offensive side of his game, to go along with the defensive side. Couturier would be the better choice as a #2 Center, if not a #1 or 1B if you will. A player such as Couturier who can match up and play against any line in any situation, as well as producing offensively. Is always the better choice for your #2 Center over a strictly offensive player such as Schenn. Especially when you have Giroux.
- MJL

Well if Schenn reaches HIS potential and develops his defensive side of his game... blah blah blah... peanuts.

I know everyone is down on Coburn & Meszaros. But let's be realistic.

Coburn only played 33 games. Yeah this was probably his worst season ever. But most players on this team had horrible seasons. The thing we all have to recognize about this season is that it is a small sampling of games and Coburn has played a lot in this league for a 28 year old defensemen. Over the past 5 seasons he's eaten 20+ top line defensive minutes a night, and has posted only one minus season (in that time, not counting this season), and he's chipped in an average of just under 25 points per year. That is the markings of a top line #2 defensive guy with some two-way ability (though he does lean more to the defensive side). Were I an opposing GM, I'd probably take most of these deals suggested that are designed to move Coburn. And as that GM I'd have 5 years of consistent play to point to as the reason this 6'5, 28-year old Defensemen with speed can anchor the defensive side of my top pairing for the next 3 years at least. I'm not saying I would not trade him for the right player. But actively TRYING to move him at this point would make the Bobrovsky deal look good.
- flyler

Mez shoulder is a concern. Coburn should play better but he's been inconsistent for awhile now.

Mez shoulder is a concern. Coburn should play better but he's been inconsistent for awhile now.
- stveshdy

To me its not that either guys is bad or is a concern, I just think the defense needs more balance. If you get 2 guys to balance out, then you deal 2 guys to make room. Cant be Timonen, wont be Schenn. I think Grossmann is cheaper and more reliable.

Well if Schenn reaches HIS potential and develops his defensive side of his game... blah blah blah... peanuts.
- youarewrong

Schenn does not have close to the Hockey sense and defensive acumen that Couturier possesses. Couturier has Selke level potential, along with offensive upside. And as a player that is going to be matched up against top lines, he is going to see a lot of icetime

Yes they do. Not identical, but similiar.
- youarewrong

Schenn does not have the defensive checking skills, ability to read and break up plays, that Couturier has. Couturier has already shown he has the ability to match up and shut down players such as Malkin. What part of Schenn's game is similar to that?

I'm not down on either player. Mostly just concerned about Meszaros being and staying healthy. Coburn will bounce back.
- MJL

Well I'm not saying everyone is down on them. But it seems to be a fairly prevalent way of thinking. Just wanted to bring up some good past markers on Coburn to contrast his past season's difficulties.

One of the interesting things I noticed going over Meszaros's stats is that he did his best offensive production in his first 3 years with Ottawa. As to why. The difference in points is about 24 versus 6 Power play points. (Ottawa versus Philly). I'm wondering if we really want to find some offense from our D-men, why we don't put Meszaros on the Top PP unit next year? Might give Kimmo a rest and give Andrej some more confidence.

Bill, thoughts on Dallas at 10? Probably the one team in the top 10 I have zero clue of what they may do. Best overall player or specific need?

Maybe trade down even?

Well I'm not saying everyone is down on them. But it seems to be a fairly prevalent way of thinking. Just wanted to bring up some good past markers on Coburn to contrast his past season's difficulties.

One of the interesting things I noticed going over Meszaros's stats is that he did his best offensive production in his first 3 years with Ottawa. As to why. The difference in points is about 24 versus 6 Power play points. (Ottawa versus Philly). I'm wondering if we really want to find some offense from our D-men, why we don't put Meszaros on the Top PP unit next year? Might give Kimmo a rest and give Andrej some more confidence.
- flyler

I wouldn't change the top PP point men of Timonen and Voracek. But Meszaros if he's healthy should definitely see PP time. He was being counted on to help replace the offense from the back end that was lost. But due to injury, never really got the chance. He's shown he has the ability. Has the skating to move up on the play, and shown he can score.

If Couturier reaches his potential and develops the offensive side of his game, to go along with the defensive side. Couturier would be the better choice as a #2 Center, if not a #1 or 1B if you will. A player such as Couturier who can match up and play against any line in any situation, as well as producing offensively. Is always the better choice for your #2 Center over a strictly offensive player such as Schenn. Especially when you have Giroux.
- MJL

Couturier will be the better all around player. Schenn, I suspect, will end up putting up more ponts/season, though. Both of them will be deserving of a 1st line position, so eventually it would be more like 1B and 1C . Or instead of that they could just move Schenn to Coots' wing. They compliment each other pretty well in their play styles. Then Coots can carry the 2nd, Talbot the 3rd, and Laughton the 4th.

I know everyone is down on Coburn & Meszaros. But let's be realistic.

Coburn only played 33 games. Yeah this was probably his worst season ever. But most players on this team had horrible seasons. The thing we all have to recognize about this season is that it is a small sampling of games and Coburn has played a lot in this league for a 28 year old defensemen. Over the past 5 seasons he's eaten 20+ top line defensive minutes a night, and has posted only one minus season (in that time, not counting this season), and he's chipped in an average of just under 25 points per year. That is the markings of a top line #2 defensive guy with some two-way ability (though he does lean more to the defensive side). Were I an opposing GM, I'd probably take most of these deals suggested that are designed to move Coburn. And as that GM I'd have 5 years of consistent play to point to as the reason this 6'5, 28-year old Defensemen with speed can anchor the defensive side of my top pairing for the next 3 years at least. I'm not saying I would not trade him for the right player. But actively TRYING to move him at this point would make the Bobrovsky deal look good.
- flyler

Well generally I think most of us would rather see Mez moved than Coburn.

It's tough watching these playoff games and not seeing the Flyers out there.

It's tough watching these playoff games and not seeing the Flyers out there.
- stveshdy

Watching former Flyers out there is even worse.

Schenn does not have the defensive checking skills, ability to read and break up plays, that Couturier has. Couturier has already shown he has the ability to match up and shut down players such as Malkin. What part of Schenn's game is similar to that?
- MJL

Ok we have moved from peanuts to walnuts. IMO both players are going to round out the "side" of the puck that needs polishing. They are both going to end up being very similiar players, Schenn with a little more offensive pop, but sturdy on defense, and Couturier with a little more shut down with some scoring involved. But the end result is IMO neither will be better then the other, if all plays out. Which IMO is why if all things are equal they would rather trade Coutiurier then Schenn.

I wouldn't change the top PP point men of Timonen and Voracek. But Meszaros if he's healthy should definitely see PP time. He was being counted on to help replace the offense from the back end that was lost. But due to injury, never really got the chance. He's shown he has the ability. Has the skating to move up on the play, and shown he can score.
- MJL

healthy and Mezz dont match

Ok we have moved from peanuts to walnuts. IMO both players are going to round out the "side" of the puck that needs polishing. They are both going to end up being very similiar players, Schenn with a little more offensive pop, but sturdy on defense, and Couturier with a little more shut down with some scoring involved. But the end result is IMO neither will be better then the other, if all plays out. Which IMO is why if all things are equal they would rather trade Coutiurier then Schenn.
- youarewrong

walnuts are better for you

Ok we have moved from peanuts to walnuts. IMO both players are going to round out the "side" of the puck that needs polishing. They are both going to end up being very similiar players, Schenn with a little more offensive pop, but sturdy on defense, and Couturier with a little more shut down with some scoring involved. But the end result is IMO neither will be better then the other, if all plays out. Which IMO is why if all things are equal they would rather trade Coutiurier then Schenn.
- youarewrong

Already you can clearly see that Couturier is going to be far more then a little more shut down over Schenn. Schenn is not likely to come close to the defensive Forward that Couturier is currently at this time. Couturier has Selke level potential as a defensive forward. Schenn does not. They're not similar now, and aren't likely to be similar in the future.
And there is no doubt in my mind that the Flyers would prefer to keep Couturier over Schenn if they had to choose.
If both players reach their potential, Couturier will be the better all around player. Which doesn't in any way suggest that Schenn won't be a very good player in his own right. Just a different kind of very good.

healthy and Mezz dont match
- vejim

Not in the last year or so. We'll see what the future holds.

Maybe it is a reasonable to do this
Step 1) Hold onto Brayden Schenn and Couturier, Schenn has great offensive upside, Couturier with a great defensive upside, as well as good offensive.
Step 2) Draft Ryan Pulock
Step 3) Trade Matt Read, Mezaros, 3rd round pick (2013), 2nd round pick (2014) for Jake Gardiner. They hate him and won't play him, so maybe we can pull another Luke Schenn thing.
Step 4) Move Brayden to the LW for Coots, filling Reads spot in the top 6
Step 5) Keep Coburn in his simpler, defensive role. He plays sufficiently there.
Step 6) Keep simpler defensive system used at the end of this season.
Step 7) Develop, develop, develop.
Step 8) After Timonen retires, keep him around the locker room.
Step 9) Call up Lauridsen, after 1 more season in the AHL he should be nice and NHL ready. Experiment with Pulock to see if close to NHL ready.
Step 10) Have Timonen and Prongs mentor the young D men. Timonen teaches the more offensive young-tykes (Gus, Gardin, Pulock) how to be smart with the puck (I think he might have the best hockey IQ in the league). Have Prongs teach the big'uns (Lauri, Luke) how to be intimidating and play mean, while maintaining disciplined and defensive styles.

Now defense has been successfully made younger, and if developed right, better than ever. Our D Corps by 2014-15 season:

Gardin - Luke
Gus - Coburn
Pulock - Lauri

Does this sound feasible to everyone else?

Nah, he is Chihuahua. The grass tickles his butt hole.
- youarewrong