LOL. If either is on the table, Couturier should be gone. Good luck getting that caliber of a defenseman any other way.
- isles10289

They still aren't Weber caliber and since it is probably Couts PLUS, I'm not over anxious since we can pick up a more than serviceable D Man UFA.

To be honest and practical, I hope Couturier's development stagnates one more season - then the Flyers sign him long term at a reasonable price. Then he blossoms.

Realistically, he'll probably blossom right after Holmgren trades him.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier's Development and Future Potential
- bmeltzer

I've been a strong advocate of the "Do Not Trade Couturier" stance. He's far, far too valuable a piece.

It would take a Subban, Pietrangelo or Doughty type for me to even consider the notion.

I've likened him to Patrice Bergeron, and stand by that. We'll see how the offensive game develops. But he should be part of a shutdown 3rd line this year (which is an upgrade from where he was 5-on-5 last season).

I've been a strong advocate of the "Do Not Trade Couturier" stance. He's far, far too valuable a piece.

It would take a Subban, Pietrangelo or Doughty type for me to even consider the notion.

I've likened him to Patrice Bergeron, and stand by that. We'll see how the offensive game develops. But he should be part of a shutdown 3rd line this year (which is an upgrade from where he was 5-on-5 last season).
- bradleyc4

Bergeron is a very good comparable. 60 points and a top defensive forward in the League. That is a very valuable player. And is why they should not trade him for anything less then the type of player you mention.

I've been a strong advocate of the "Do Not Trade Couturier" stance. He's far, far too valuable a piece.

It would take a Subban, Pietrangelo or Doughty type for me to even consider the notion.

I've likened him to Patrice Bergeron, and stand by that. We'll see how the offensive game develops. But he should be part of a shutdown 3rd line this year (which is an upgrade from where he was 5-on-5 last season).
- bradleyc4

He needs to improve his strength upper body and his stride. Gary Roberts program did wonders for stamkos. He needs to sign up for that

He needs to improve his strength upper body and his stride. Gary Roberts program did wonders for stamkos. He needs to sign up for that
- Just5

That will come in time as he naturally matures.

Bill Meltzer: powning the haters since 2008.

If they want more size, they could go after Byfuglien

all three hundred and two pounds of him

http://www.winnipegfreepr...or-a-trade-210963161.html
- Jsaquella

Hard to imagine a guy playing 20+ minutes a night in the NHL could come close to 300 lbs.

He'd have to be crushing cases of Tastykakes during each intermission.

Hard to imagine a guy playing 20+ minutes a night in the NHL could come close to 300 lbs.

He'd have to be crushing cases of Tastykakes during each intermission.
- bradleyc4

For me it comes down to discipline. This surely shows he has none of it off the ice. And from what I have seen of his play on the ice, he is just as undisciplined.

This does not even take in to account the tremendous toll putting on, and then losing (if he can) that amount of weight year in and year out puts on your body.

Buff is a non starter, I don't want him anywhere near the Flyers locker room.

Just a few things. Not likely to get Edler without giving up a roster player. And how many years are you willing to give for Iginla and Backstrom? Both would be 35+ deals if signed to multi year deals.
- MJL

yep, I hear all those concerns and am fully aware of them. Since no answer is reasonable (I don't know what they would accept) I will say ideally 3 years at most for the older UFAs. I also don't know what VAN wants other then younger and bigger. Coburn could be a trading chip there. Ideally I would sign Striet and keep the 1st.

Band aid with Streit or Hainsey. If the Flyers are going to trade B. Schenn or Couturier, at least wait until next offseason to better judge what they are. Why trade them with their value is the lowest. There is no player available anyway that would make the Flyers a cup contender next year, especially having to trade the amount of pieces to acquire the player/players necessary to win it all.
- psuhockey

yep, I hear all those concerns and am fully aware of them. Since no answer is reasonable (I don't know what they would accept) I will say ideally 3 years at most for the older UFAs. I also don't know what VAN wants other then younger and bigger. Coburn could be a trading chip there. Ideally I would sign Striet and keep the 1st.
- coffee junkie

You'd have to give up more for Edler then Coburn. I'm not in favor of getting into 2 more 35+ contracts. I'd stay away from Iginla. And I'd rather give the reins to Mason, and sign a veteran on a one year deal then to get into a multi year deal with Backstrom.

For me it comes down to discipline. This surely shows he has none of it off the ice. And from what I have seen of his play on the ice, he is just as undisciplined.

This does not even take in to account the tremendous toll putting on, and then losing (if he can) that amount of weight year in and year out puts on your body.

Buff is a non starter, I don't want him anywhere near the Flyers locker room.
- MBFlyerfan

Non starter.

I have to wonder out loud here, does he have a chemical imbalance that has made him put on that much? I don't say that harshly. Seems like a professional athlete sees a doctor a lot and it would be hard for them not to catch it but something is seriously a miss.

I've likened him to Patrice Bergeron, and stand by that. We'll see how the offensive game develops. But he should be part of a shutdown 3rd line this year (which is an upgrade from where he was 5-on-5 last season).
- bradleyc4

There are some similarities between the two, especially that they broke into the NHL as teenagers and were great defensively right off the bat.

The big difference to me is that Bergeron wasn't carrying around the added expectations of being a lottery selection and connected to a trade of a former team star. Bergeron was taken with a compensatory pick and anything they gave them was going to be pure gravy. Even Couturier's bosses expected him to morph into a world-beater in year #2.

To me, the more important lesson is that Boston somehow avoided the temptation to trade any of their young centermen over the past few years... there were a lot of calls to trade Krejci when Savard was still healthy and after they drafted Seguin. Marchand is a natural center that's playing on the wing. Their in-house depth at the position also didn't preclude them from adding more C's via trade -- Peverley, Kelly, Campbell have all been vital additions.

Too many C's is a great problem to have, and is no reason to either stop drafting them or to move on from perfectly viable prospects like Couturier, Laughton, Schenn, etc.

You'd have to give up more for Edler then Coburn. I'm not in favor of getting into 2 more 35+ contracts. I'd stay away from Iginla. And I'd rather give the reins to Mason, and sign a veteran on a one year deal then to get into a multi year deal with Backstrom.
- MJL

Not suggesting Coburn would net you Edler at all, just that he could be a chip of interest for VAN.

Who are you getting for one year? If you want a vet backup you might have to give him at least 2 just to get him to put ink to paper.

I would love to see Iggy in O and B. 3 years at 4.5-5 would be sweet IMHO. Not sure about Striet but sounds a lot better then trading a young stud for much of the same.

Edit: I'm not wedded to Backstrom at all, just an example. If you could get a vet for 1 year then awesome.

There are some similarities between the two, especially that they broke into the NHL as teenagers and were great defensively right off the bat.

The big difference to me is that Bergeron wasn't carrying around the added expectations of being a lottery selection and connected to a trade of a former team star. Bergeron was taken with a compensatory pick and anything they gave them was going to be pure gravy. Even Couturier's bosses expected him to morph into a world-beater in year #2.

To me, the more important lesson is that Boston somehow avoided the temptation to trade any of their young centermen over the past few years... there were a lot of calls to trade Krejci when Savard was still healthy and after they drafted Seguin. Marchand is a natural center that's playing on the wing. Their in-house depth at the position also didn't preclude them from adding more C's via trade -- Peverley, Kelly, Campbell have all been vital additions.

Too many C's is a great problem to have, and is no reason to either stop drafting them or to move on from perfectly viable prospects like Couturier, Laughton, Schenn, etc.
- Tomahawk

B Schenn's ceiling and the player he could resemble is Dustin Brown. Would love to see him on the wing

For me it comes down to discipline. This surely shows he has none of it off the ice. And from what I have seen of his play on the ice, he is just as undisciplined.

This does not even take in to account the tremendous toll putting on, and then losing (if he can) that amount of weight year in and year out puts on your body.

Buff is a non starter, I don't want him anywhere near the Flyers locker room.
- MBFlyerfan

Even at (a reported) 300 lbs., he's still a very effective offensive defenseman.

I'm not advocating a trade, but I wouldn't write him off as a target to improve the puck skills on the back end. May be a great 'buy low' candidate.

Buff is a non starter, I don't want him anywhere near the Flyers locker room.
- MBFlyerfan

Can beggers really afford to be choosers, though?

If his weight and Cheveldayoff/Noel's frustration with him make it possible for him to be had at a cut-rate, it would be hard to not chase that down. He still is one of the biggest point-producing dmen of the past handful of years, despite playing heavy throughout his entire career.

I wouldn't pay much for him, but I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand either.

Even at (a reported) 300 lbs., he's still a very effective offensive defenseman.

I'm not advocating a trade, but I wouldn't write him off as a target to improve the puck skills on the back end. May be a great 'buy low' candidate.
- bradleyc4

What would buy low look like do you think? Just curious.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier's Development and Future Potential
- bmeltzer

i don't want him traded - at least nowhere near right now. can we let our top 10 20 year old pick have more than 1.5 seasons before we jettison him for some band-aid package that isn't going to work out anyway? for (frank)'s sake.

i don't want him traded - at least nowhere near right now. can we let our top 10 20 year old pick have more than 1.5 seasons before we jettison him for some band-aid package that isn't going to work out anyway? for (frank)'s sake.
- hammarby31

hahah (frank)ing flyers

What would buy low look like do you think? Just curious.
- coffee junkie

Impossible to know what WPG would be willing to accept. Can you get him for a 2nd rounder and a Phantom? Or for a guy like Cousins?

put Buff in front of the net and nobody will move him, so I'm conflicted

I find it funny sometimes the dynamic that occurs when talking about the value of players on big market teams vs. those on smaller market or western teams. While Couturier is a great talent and could probably be traded for either a stable or potential top-pairing defenseman, expecting a franchise, Norris-candidate defenseman in return can only be seen as the sort of systemic over-valuing that occurs around big market teams w/ die hard fan bases. They're able to generate a type of media buzz and a sort of self-subsuming, seemingly coherent echo chamber around their players that tend to leave them chronically over-valued in comparison to what the rest of the league (and other GMs therefore) would be willing to pay. Sometimes this is beneficial, as you get more value for the players you trade--Boston does this better than anyone. At other times, and especially if your team is on a downswing, if you're unwilling to trade an asset at his peak value, you might wind up like the Leafs did for years...

A good example of this dynamic can be seen in a comparison of Ryan O'Reilly and Couturier's perceived values (since they're similar players and I can speak about both, being an Avs fan living in Philly--their relative value in trade discussions here has also been brought up in the past). Both are close in age, style, and point output. Weighing both objectively for their on-ice play, I would predict similar development and overall potential, and yet, because O'Reilly played out west and received far less east coast media coverage and die-hard fan base hype, he was generally perceived to have far less value than Couturier when the Avs were attempting to trade him. I remember Flyers fans scoffing at the idea of a straight up O'Reilly for Couturier trade, even though the move likely would've been in the vein of a lateral, "fast-forwarding past the growing pains" type of trade for Philly, as O'Reilly had already shown his offensive potential. Further, imagine for a second how obscene it would have been to you all if the asking price for O'Reilly last June had been a Norris-caliber defenseman, even after coming off a 55 pt season. That's the sort of skew you're currently dealing with--you have a great young defensive center who's yet to show his O potential, but what you're asking is going to be viewed as ridiculous to everyone who doesn't have an orange sweater hanging up in their closet.

Impossible to know what WPG would be willing to accept. Can you get him for a 2nd rounder and a Phantom? Or for a guy like Cousins?
- bradleyc4

I understand the idea that he could be a "cancer" but for that price it may be well worth keeping other assets (ala not trading youth for a different D man). That type of deal would have me really scratching my head. I would be surprised to see WPG do it but you never know. The flip side is, if WPG is willing to pretty much toss him to the waste side do we really want him? Thanks for brining it up.