no hes a backup goalie who has only seen 62 games of action...might as well be a prospect.
- PhillaBully

OR...

He is a top end talent (drafted high, and has succeed in every level including the NHL) who has been stuck behind another top end talent. Calling him a backup isnt realistic.

I assume you are a fan of Ryan's?

Getzlaf is one of the elite set up men in the game today. Over the past three seasons he has 137 assists in 193 games (.709 A/G)

Giroux is also one of the elite set up guys in the game today. He has 151 assists over his past 207 gameas (.729 A/G)..

If you break it down.. over a full 82 game season... thats 1.64 MORE assists per season for Giroux than it is for Getzlaf.

The likely hood of seeing Ryan jump from a 30 goal scorer to a 40+ goal scorer by going from Getzlaf to Giroux just isnt realistic.

He is a good first line winger... He isnt an elite talent. You dont break the bank to get him...
- jak521

I wouldn't call an 11th and coburn breaking the bank for a 30 goal scorer. Jmo.

Thats my bet. Hell of a total package talent.
- jak521

And he will be cashing in, and he should.
With his age, this might be his one shot at big money. 4 years/18M wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Now, if say Anaheim wanted him, I would let them make an offer cause I just don't see how the Flyers would be able to resign him at that price next year.

I wouldn't call an 11th and coburn breaking the bank for a 30 goal scorer. Jmo.
- moylander

I absolutely would.

If I were Homer, and ANA offered that deal to me.. Id laugh.

Especially considering its something we dont need.

I wouldn't call an 11th and coburn breaking the bank for a 30 goal scorer. Jmo.
- moylander

Who would you replace Coburn with?

And he will be cashing in, and he should.
With his age, this might be his one shot at big money. 4 years/18M wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Now, if say Anaheim wanted him, I would let them make an offer cause I just don't see how the Flyers would be able to resign him at that price next year.
- nails

Theres one thing about the Flyers... you never can predict the future with them.

Who would you replace Coburn with?
- nails

pssh.. Marc Oliver Bouridsen

To be honest.. I think the complete opposite.

Offense and scoring goals has been our strongest asset the past few years.
2010-2011 we ranked 3rd in total goals.
2011-2012 we ranked 2nd in total goals.
2012-2013 we ranked 9th in total goals.

In 2012-2013 we ranked 23rd in goals against.
Bobby Ryan would do absolutely nothing to help better that mark. He is pretty much a one way player. He is spotty offensively... but can be dynamic.

We didnt go add Streit to be the heir to Timonens throne. We added him to be Mark Streit in a Flyers uniform. He is going to play on the PP and bring a much needed puck moving presence to the back end. Is adding him a good idea? I thing it is... however the terms of his contract are pretty iffy IMO.

As for Bernier... any time you can get a goalie with top end starters potential, AND who has already shown the ability to play in the NHL.. you should be interested. Mason is a HUGE question mark.
- jak521

You just proved my point exactly? Who on this team is a dynamic goal scorer on this team? There might be more of a need for Jeff Carter now, then there ever was before we traded him.

Do you really feel the Flyers have always longed to have Mark Streit sign with us? Mark Streit wasn't even a thought in my mind until we traded for his rights. You're right, we need Mark Streit to be Mark Streit but beyond this season, will he be enough. Don't forget what works against Streit is his age.

And finally, if Steve Mason is a huge question mark (which I agree that he is), did we jump the gun on trading for him or are we jumping the gun on grabbing Johnathan Bernier? Like I said, fans were willing to hand over the number one goaltending position to Steve Mason because of his handling of the puck before these Bernier rumours broke.

OR...

He is a top end talent (drafted high, and has succeed in every level including the NHL) who has been stuck behind another top end talent. Calling him a backup isnt realistic.
- jak521

But, backup is exactly the role that he is playing. He's not good enough to be their starter. Why should the Flyers pay top dollar for that?

BTW: All the press I've read about Bernier reminds me of another goalie "stuck" behind an established starter. That goalies was a first round pick too, who was ready to take the reins.

Martin Biron, anyone?

So Ryan is so good he cant even manage to stay on the top line in ANA, yet we wanna bring him here.. and trade FOR him?

Meh, Ill wait till he goes to FA... then Ill think about it.
- jak521

I didn't say any of this at all. Now you're just discounting the players who already play for the Ducks. Corey Perry is a former 50 goal scorer. Teemu Selanne is a fututre hall of famer.

Theres one thing about the Flyers... you never can predict the future with them.
- jak521

Nope.

It sounds like Bernier was worth more 2 years ago (to some people) with less NHL experience than he is today. Except today he has more NHL experience and not really any negatives other than "hasn't been full time starter yet", which I don't think is based on his level of play more than who is in front of him. If the Flyers make a move there, I'll have to assume they think he can actually be a franchise goalie as he used to be projected to be. I'm not "qualified" as it were to make that call one way or the other, but if they really believe that he can be that good, it's definitely worth more than just a tire kick IMO.

It sounds like Bernier was worth more 2 years ago (to some people) with less NHL experience than he is today. Except today he has more NHL experience and not really any negatives other than "hasn't been full time starter yet", which I don't think is based on his level of play more than who is in front of him. If the Flyers make a move there, I'll have to assume they think he can actually be a franchise goalie as he used to be projected to be. I'm not "qualified" as it were to make that call one way or the other, but if they really believe that he can be that good, it's definitely worth more than just a tire kick IMO.
- eayost

the point is, he barely has any more nhl experience today than he did 2 years ago.

But, backup is exactly the role that he is playing. He's not good enough to be their starter. Why should the Flyers pay top dollar for that?

BTW: All the press I've read about Bernier reminds me of another goalie "stuck" behind an established starter. That goalies was a first round pick too, who was ready to take the reins.

Martin Biron, anyone?
- johndewar

Thank you...unless he has been a starter before to me he is nothing more than a backup with good potential to becoming a starter... your trading a known quantity in read...

the point is, he barely has any more nhl experience today than he did 2 years ago.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Which doesn't mean he isn't just as good or better.

It just means he has an all star/cup winner in front of him.

Instead of Ryan why not just sign Horton? Hes the same player, just a little older. Dump salary in a seperate deal

I absolutely would.

If I were Homer, and ANA offered that deal to me.. Id laugh.

Especially considering its something we dont need.
- jak521

What scares me is homers comment about getting bigger...i assume he meant the wingers.

Thank you...unless he has been a starter before to me he is nothing more than a backup with good potential to becoming a starter... your trading a known quantity in read...
- PhillaBully

Unless you go the FA route, I gotta believe that you would spend WAY more than read for an established starter.

Which doesn't mean he isn't just as good or better.

It just means he has an all star/cup winner in front of him.
- nails

But, the thing is, you don't attach that "all star/cup winner" tag to Bernier.

Bernier has played 62 NHL games in this league over 4 years. That's a painfully small sample size to pay a premium price on.

Instead of Ryan why not just sign Horton? Hes the same player, just a little older. Dump salary in a seperate deal
- Just5

Lots of injury there

I absolutely would.

If I were Homer, and ANA offered that deal to me.. Id laugh.

Especially considering its something we dont need.
- jak521

What do you EXPECT to get at 11th? Would you be happy if the 11th pick turned out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer like the 'proven' player Ryan is? What if the pick flopped and it was wasted ( better chance of that happening than finding a 30 goal scorer BTW), and for coburn I like him but I'd trade him if I thought I'd improve the team. I think you are overvaluing what COULD happen with an 11th pick rather than what WILL happen by adding a big sniper to the first line.

Hartsy-Giroux-Ryan
Schenn-Coots-Jake
Talbot-Laughton-Simmonds

Trade read for bernier.

It sounds like Bernier was worth more 2 years ago (to some people) with less NHL experience than he is today. Except today he has more NHL experience and not really any negatives other than "hasn't been full time starter yet", which I don't think is based on his level of play more than who is in front of him. If the Flyers make a move there, I'll have to assume they think he can actually be a franchise goalie as he used to be projected to be. I'm not "qualified" as it were to make that call one way or the other, but if they really believe that he can be that good, it's definitely worth more than just a tire kick IMO.
- eayost

A 21 year old supermodel is always hotter than the same one at 23. Two years older and less potential.

Compared to whom?

There's no proof as to whether Bernier is ready to be a full time starter.

There is a definitive proof about Matt Read, as to what kind of player he is.
- johndewar

A good 3rd liner. That's it. That said, he'd be welcomed in Pittsburgh.

You just proved my point exactly? Who on this team is a dynamic goal scorer on this team? There might be more of a need for Jeff Carter now, then there ever was before we traded him.

Do you really feel the Flyers have always longed to have Mark Streit sign with us? Mark Streit wasn't even a thought in my mind until we traded for his rights. You're right, we need Mark Streit to be Mark Streit but beyond this season, will he be enough. Don't forget what works against Streit is his age.

And finally, if Steve Mason is a huge question mark (which I agree that he is), did we jump the gun on trading for him or are we jumping the gun on grabbing Johnathan Bernier? Like I said, fans were willing to hand over the number one goaltending position to Steve Mason because of his handling of the puck before these Bernier rumours broke.
- dingo8urbaby

I didnt prove any point. I said he CAN be dynamic, as in, there are times he is and times he isnt. That is normally referred to as being inconsistent. JVR (as Bill has stated) is a very similar player. As for the whole, we need a dynamic goal scorer for G. In 2012 Hartnell scored 37 goals. Bobby Ryan had 31. Last season Jakub Voracek had 22 goals, Bobby Ryan had 19. Both Hartnell and Voracek look like they will be playing next to G this upcoming season. The supposed need for a "sniper" is vastly overblown.

As for Streit, I never once said the Flyers have "longed" for him. They need to upgrade the puck moving aspect of the defense, and obviously they did not want to rid themselves of assets in the process, so in comes Streit. Worry about next year, next year. Hell, FA hasnt even started yet and we are already sure no other moves will be made.

As for Mason. His stick handling skills are impressive, but so are DiPietro's. Doesnt mean he should be our starting goalie. Mason showed a glimpse (what 7 games?) of solid play. Adding Bernier and letting him and Mason compete would be a risk, no doubt, but it also has an enormous reward factor if it pans out. At worst, we have a similar goalie situation to the past decade. No big deal there. At best we find a future TRUE #1

But, the thing is, you don't attach that "all star/cup winner" tag to Bernier.

Bernier has played 62 NHL games in this league over 4 years. That's a painfully small sample size to pay a premium price on.
- johndewar

You see Read as a premium?

And no, you don't attach that tag to him. It doesn't mean he can't be that person.
It's just like anyone that could have had to play behind Marty.
Bernier might be really good, you just can't tell because he doesn't get to play enough.

I am not going pro or con with bernier here.
Now, a couple years ago around this time, I was the guy pining for them to trade Carter to LA for one of the young goalies, Simmonds, and Johnson, so I would have taken Bernier then. I was also told I was an idiot.