OR...

He is a top end talent (drafted high, and has succeed in every level including the NHL) who has been stuck behind another top end talent. Calling him a backup isnt realistic.
- jak521

Khudobin is another guy you could get a look. Halak/Elliott...

Which doesn't mean he isn't just as good or better.

It just means he has an all star/cup winner in front of him.
- nails

I said earlier and I think it bears repeating. Bernier's value is totally speculative at this point. To a certain extent you are always rolling dice with a goalie, but I dont see how aquiring Bernier is any less of a roll of the dice than aquiring Mason was.

He's played fewer games the Bobrovsky for example... and there have to still be questions about Bob, condsidering he won the Vezina based on a 48 game season.

Questions.. I have many questions. I have few answers.

Unless you go the FA route, I gotta believe that you would spend WAY more than read for an established starter.
- nails

Have to look at the needs of LA....How many teams are willing to give up guys on entry level deals that can score 25g a year and can play in any stiuation? If read was in his early twentys as most guys on entry level deals are, his price would be through the roof...in fact it would take bernier plus to acquire him.

It makes sense for the kings to trade for him because he can step in and provide the scoring they desperately need. Have you seen their cap situation? It is abysmal. Anyway if they cant sign bernier you can bet the flyers offer sheet him for a second round pick. Personally i think read is worth a hell of a lot more than a second rounder.

What do you EXPECT to get at 11th? Would you be happy if the 11th pick turned out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer like the 'proven' player Ryan is? What if the pick flopped and it was wasted ( better chance of that happening than finding a 30 goal scorer BTW), and for coburn I like him but I'd trade him if I thought I'd improve the team. I think you are overvaluing what COULD happen with an 11th pick rather than what WILL happen by adding a big sniper to the first line.

Hartsy-Giroux-Ryan
Schenn-Coots-Jake
Talbot-Laughton-Simmonds

Trade read for bernier.
- moylander

If that were the case, why hasnt every team gone out and gotten themselves a Bobby Ryan? Because its not the best hockey move in a cap world. We have (right now) 6 guys who are AT LEAST 20 goal scorers IMO. G, Hartnell, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Read. I think Couts should (and will) hit and eclipse that mark this season as well. Of those guys... I think Simmonds, Voracek and Hartnell have 25-35 goal ability. The need for a "Sniper" is vastly overblown.

A good 3rd liner. That's it. That said, he'd be welcomed in Pittsburgh.
- Orpik44

Sounds like someone is falling into the trap of misconceptions. He's a good 2nd line player.

http://www.pensionplanpup...should-that-forward-score

A 21 year old supermodel is always hotter than the same one at 23. Two years older and less potential.
- phillydentist

I don't think Bernier has any less potential than he did two years ago (unless that comment was in jest about supermodels). I view the fact that he's still in the league and many teams want him as a positive to what his true potential is. Reminds me of the Nabokov/Kipper situation years ago.

I guess how you view this really depends on how you view the importance of the goaltender position. I think having a "stud" back there is critical to being able to win. Sometimes you don't need that good of goaltending to win, but look at the past couple seasons at the level of playoff goaltending. It's amazing. You have a better chance of winning if you can get goaltending like that than you do if you don't get it. I think if you have Mason and Bernier, you have a better chance of ultimately having that guy than if you just have Mason and a vet. Again, I stress that I'm not necessarily saying I personally think Bernier is this franchise guy, but if the professionals in the Flyers organization that know more than I do think so, than I think it's worth looking into.

Sounds like someone is falling into the trap of misconceptions. He's a good 2nd line player.

http://www.pensionplanpup...should-that-forward-score
- bradleyc4

Bump

A good 3rd liner. That's it. That said, he'd be welcomed in Pittsburgh.
- Orpik44

Read can play up and down the lineup and in all situations.

He's fast, he's smart, and you don't have to worry about him staying in top physical condition.

I'm fine with keeping Read and shopping elsewhere in the goaltender market.

I didnt prove any point. I said he CAN be dynamic, as in, there are times he is and times he isnt. That is normally referred to as being inconsistent. JVR (as Bill has stated) is a very similar player. As for the whole, we need a dynamic goal scorer for G. In 2012 Hartnell scored 37 goals. Bobby Ryan had 31. Last season Jakub Voracek had 22 goals, Bobby Ryan had 19. Both Hartnell and Voracek look like they will be playing next to G this upcoming season. The supposed need for a "sniper" is vastly overblown.

As for Streit, I never once said the Flyers have "longed" for him. They need to upgrade the puck moving aspect of the defense, and obviously they did not want to rid themselves of assets in the process, so in comes Streit. Worry about next year, next year. Hell, FA hasnt even started yet and we are already sure no other moves will be made.

As for Mason. His stick handling skills are impressive, but so are DiPietro's. Doesnt mean he should be our starting goalie. Mason showed a glimpse (what 7 games?) of solid play. Adding Bernier and letting him and Mason compete would be a risk, no doubt, but it also has an enormous reward factor if it pans out. At worst, we have a similar goalie situation to the past decade. No big deal there. At best we find a future TRUE #1
- jak521

You did prove my point though. It's easy to point out Hartnell scored 37 goals two seasons ago but then you bring up a word like consistency. Scott Hartnell isn't a consistent 37 goal scorer. He isn't even a consistent 30 goal scorer. His age also points out that a player who plays the style that he does could go on to the decline within the next 3 or 4 seasons. Bill is right, Bobby Ryan is much like JvR but that's a deal I never would have made to begin with. JvR had a fantastic year. He wasn't really playing behind succh players as Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr etc. JvR is now a go to guy for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good for him! It was a sweet deal for the Leafs and I still feel the Flyers should have got more. Who is our dynamic goal scorer in a close game?

We did move assets to aquire ark Streit. We moved Shane Harper and a fourth round pick to get him.

If the Flyes trade for Johnathon Bernier, I think Steve Mason and Berier have an opportunity to become a number 1 goaltender in Philadelphia long term. They both still have a chance to be a number 1 somewhere in the NHL.

I said earlier and I think it bears repeating. Bernier's value is totally speculative at this point. To a certain extent you are always rolling dice with a goalie, but I dont see how aquiring Bernier is any less of a roll of the dice than aquiring Mason was.

He's played fewer games the Bobrovsky for example... and there have to still be questions about Bob, condsidering he won the Vezina based on a 48 game season.

Questions.. I have many questions. I have few answers.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Mason and Bob were thrown to the wolves their first seasons, did well at the beginning, but eventually the absence of proper development caught up to both of them. It's still debatable if Mason will ever recover from that, whereas Bob's gone on to have a great partial season.

Like Schneider 12-24 months ago, Bernier's at the stage where he's been put through all of the proper development paces and demonstrated at every step that he's legit. Somebody's going to capitalize on all of the patience that the Kings have shown... it would be nice for a change if the Flyers could trade for/sign a goalie that isn't on the wrong side of 30.

it all depends on what they want to do with Bryz.
If they are buying him out, then I would seek Bernier.
Go into the season with him and Mason and see who wins the job.
reinvest that cap space into the D if possible.

You see Read as a premium?

And no, you don't attach that tag to him. It doesn't mean he can't be that person.
It's just like anyone that could have had to play behind Marty.
Bernier might be really good, you just can't tell because he doesn't get to play enough.

I am not going pro or con with bernier here.
Now, a couple years ago around this time, I was the guy pining for them to trade Carter to LA for one of the young goalies, Simmonds, and Johnson, so I would have taken Bernier then. I was also told I was an idiot.
- nails

Well, you did say you wanted Jack Johnson

I don't think Bernier has any less potential than he did two years ago (unless that comment was in jest about supermodels). I view the fact that he's still in the league and many teams want him as a positive to what his true potential is. Reminds me of the Nabokov/Kipper situation years ago.

I guess how you view this really depends on how you view the importance of the goaltender position. I think having a "stud" back there is critical to being able to win. Sometimes you don't need that good of goaltending to win, but look at the past couple seasons at the level of playoff goaltending. It's amazing. You have a better chance of winning if you can get goaltending like that than you do if you don't get it. I think if you have Mason and Bernier, you have a better chance of ultimately having that guy than if you just have Mason and a vet. Again, I stress that I'm not necessarily saying I personally think Bernier is this franchise guy, but if the professionals in the Flyers organization that know more than I do think so, than I think it's worth looking into.
- eayost

The Sharks got a 2nd round pick for Kipper.

You did prove my point though. It's easy to point out Hartnell scored 37 goals two seasons ago but then you bring up a word like consistency. Scott Hartnell isn't a consistent 37 goal scorer. He isn't even a consistent 30 goal scorer. His age also points out that a player who plays the style that he does could go on to the decline within the next 3 or 4 seasons. Bill is right, Bobby Ryan is much like JvR but that's a deal I never would have made to begin with. JvR had a fantastic year. He wasn't really playing behind succh players as Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr etc. JvR is now a go to guy for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good for him! It was a sweet deal for the Leafs and I still feel the Flyers should have got more.

We did move assets to aquire ark Streit. We moved Shane Harper and a fourth round pick to get him.

If the Flyes trade for Johnathon Bernier, I think Steve Mason and Berier have an opportunity to become a number 1 goaltender in Philadelphia long term. They both still have a chance to be a number 1 somewhere in the NHL.
- dingo8urbaby

Shane Harper is not an asset. He's a guy who was not in their plans and is about to become an RFA. A conditional 4th round pick is like a $1 Lottery ticket.

I like Matt Read, but I have a feeling w/Giroux about to get a big pay day and the blueline needs that Read could be the odd man out w/a team willing to overpay in UFA. He could be a decent chip to deal. Similar to the Umberger scenerio a bit.

I like Matt Read, but I have a feeling w/Giroux about to get a big pay day and the blueline needs that Read could be the odd man out w/a team willing to overpay in UFA. He could be a decent chip to deal. Similar to the Umberger scenerio a bit.
- flyguy12

I agree with this.

I just wouldn't trade him for a goaltender.

I would contend that it is way easier to find another read than to find a Bernier, even just based off of 60 games.

I guess how you view this really depends on how you view the importance of the goaltender position. I think having a "stud" back there is critical to being able to win. Sometimes you don't need that good of goaltending to win, but look at the past couple seasons at the level of playoff goaltending. It's amazing. You have a better chance of winning if you can get goaltending like that than you do if you don't get it. I think if you have Mason and Bernier, you have a better chance of ultimately having that guy than if you just have Mason and a vet. Again, I stress that I'm not necessarily saying I personally think Bernier is this franchise guy, but if the professionals in the Flyers organization that know more than I do think so, than I think it's worth looking into.
- eayost

I think perception has a lot to do with value. What I'm specifically referring to is two years ago the demand for young goalies with the potential to be starters was somewhat like what the demand is now for young dmen with the potential to be first pairing guys. Priorities have shifted because the demand for goalies as shown by the moves league-wide for RFA and UFA goalies wasn't as intense as anticipated. Holmgren way overpaid for Bryz but he did it in a vaccuum with only himself to outbid. There are more available goalies than there are teams needing them. To keep it short, it's a buyer's market right now for goalies. Holmgren needs to understand that and act accordingly regardless of the rumors of this team or that team having interest in the same guy he wants.

I agree with this.

I just wouldn't trade him for a goaltender.
- bradleyc4

Depends on what's available. I'm assuming you'd want to use him to upgrade the defense?

Well, you did say you wanted Jack Johnson
- BulliesPhan87

wouldn't the D have faired better with him this year?

You did prove my point though. It's easy to point out Hartnell scored 37 goals two seasons ago but then you bring up a word like consistency. Scott Hartnell isn't a consistent 37 goal scorer. He isn't even a consistent 30 goal scorer. His age also points out that a player who plays the style that he does could go on to the decline within the next 3 or 4 seasons. Bill is right, Bobby Ryan is much like JvR but that's a deal I never would have made to begin with. JvR had a fantastic year. He wasn't really playing behind succh players as Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr etc. JvR is now a go to guy for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good for him! It was a sweet deal for the Leafs and I still feel the Flyers should have got more.

We did move assets to aquire ark Streit. We moved Shane Harper and a fourth round pick to get him.

If the Flyes trade for Johnathon Bernier, I think Steve Mason and Berier have an opportunity to become a number 1 goaltender in Philadelphia long term. They both still have a chance to be a number 1 somewhere in the NHL.
- dingo8urbaby

Consistency isnt referred to statistics. I havent done that at all... because statistics would argue that Ryan is consistent. He will come in and score 30 goals a year. His play on the ice is what I was referring to. He is a strictly offensive forward... who has big peaks and big valleys in his on ice play. Voracek is coming off of an enormous year. Much bigger than Ryans (especially in the two way game, where it really isnt even a competiton). Hartnell is coming off of a bad year that I give him a pass for. He was banged up, and didnt start to come around until the lock out shortened season was winding down. I understand that 3-4 years from now he may not be the player he is today, but thats not todays problem. There isnt a single GM in the game that will replace a player because he may not be the same player 3-4 years from now. Its just not logical.

In keeping with the consistency, STATISTICALLY Hartnell is a lock to score anywhere from 20-35 goals any given season. Voracek (who I think will stay par for the course this season) should put up 25-30 goals this year. This "need" for Bobby Ryan is not only ridiculous, but totally unrealistic. We dont need him.

My point with Streit was that we didnt need to give up roster players to get him.

Depends on what's available. I'm assuming you'd want to use him to upgrade the defense?
- flyguy12

I'd rather just keep him and see what happens. They're already a little thin on the wing.

But if they were to use him to upgrade the defense significantly, I wouldn't complain.

I just think the cost to acquire a decent goaltender isn't all that much.

wouldn't the D have faired better with him this year?
- nails

No, next question.

I would contend that it is way easier to find another read than to find a Bernier, even just based off of 60 games.
- nails

With this franchise, it's easier to find a unicorn than a Bernier.

Shane Harper is not an asset. He's a guy who was not in their plans and is about to become an RFA. A conditional 4th round pick is like a $1 Lottery ticket.
- Doc_Sarcasm

When you trade a young a young player for anything, it's an asset. We didn't trade a UFA, we traded a RFA. I agree it's not that big of a deal but it's still an asset. Also it depends on the condition because I do consider 4th round picks to be pretty important.