I hope the Flyers find a way to keep Matt Read part of the team for years to come. He's a dynamic player that move up and down the lineup and play PK and PP.

So what, NBA is watered down compaired to when Wilt, Bird, and Jordan played. And Lebron is winning because a FA class decided to "buy" a championship. That is just Dirty IMO. Could you imagine Bird and Jordan leaving Chicago and Boston to play with the NETS at the same time.... Its just poor character.
- youarewrong

I agree about everything except the watered down part. The NBA has always been star driven and watered down. That's why you see so many teams repeat. Repeats aren't common in any other sport except basketball.

This is an interesting point of view. Very early in Crosby's career, he was accused of being a whiner and he was. I think a lot of that had to do with cameras always being focused on him but yes, he did cry a lot but this was before the lens were his team. Players like Mario Lemieux, Mark Recchi, Ziggy Palfy And John LeClair weren't gonna follow that sort of behavior. Now teams like the Flyers and Bruins under Crosby's leadership know how to make the Penguins crumble. Something as small as watching Crosby smack Voracek's glove away as he goes to puck it up are clear signs.
- dingo8urbaby

I want to see Crosby come out and dominate an entire playoff run. Put the team on his back and rack up 45 points in a SC run. Then we'll talk.

I agree about everything except the watered down part. The NBA has always been star driven and watered down. That's why you see so many teams repeat. Repeats aren't common in any other sport except basketball.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'll agree. Every now and then a team surprises (the Sixers run 2 seasons ago), but the NBA is traditionally a league of 6-8 legitimate teams, and the also-rans.

I want to see Crosby come out and dominate an entire playoff run. Put the team on his back and rack up 45 points in a SC run. Then we'll talk.
- jmatchett383

You're very nostalgic aren't you?

You're very nostalgic aren't you?
- PhillySportsGuy

I...don't follow. I sense sarcasm, though.

I want to see Crosby come out and dominate an entire playoff run. Put the team on his back and rack up 45 points in a SC run. Then we'll talk.
- jmatchett383

Why?

He'll be an amazing player in my book. But not a legend. To me, it's in the same region as McGwire. He did amazing things, but it's tainted. For Big Mac, it's tainted because he cheated. For LeBron, it's because he's a douche bag.

I don't have Crosby being held back because of his attitude. It's because he has yet to do anything where people (outside of Pittsburgh) will sit around and tell stories about the time they saw him play.

I saw Gretzky play 3 times, and I was in absolute awe each time. I saw Mario play twice and it was the same. I felt special to be in the same building as them. And players coming into the league felt the same way. I don't think there's been anyone that's come along since them that fits that. Like I said, Brodeur is probably the closest.
- jmatchett383

i view it a little differently. mcgwire cheating directly influenced the stats that made him a legend. so hes out in my book. there is no redeeming that. lebron being a douche bag doesnt make him any taller, faster or stronger. a mouthful of sour milk to swallow yes, but not any less of a great player.

and its a stretch of an example because it was a subpar goal, but plenty of people outside pittsburgh will talk about his gold medal goal for a long while

I want to see Crosby come out and dominate an entire playoff run. Put the team on his back and rack up 45 points in a SC run. Then we'll talk.
- jmatchett383

Is Crosby even the best player on his team? If I had a choice, part of me would rather have Malkin.

He will. Solid signing. I think a guy like Sutter is invaluable because of his ability to play good two-way hockey. He will be expensive next offseason.
- PhillySportsGuy

same. for some reason a lot of pens fans arent too fond of him it seems. i love what he brings, and right now it is a perfect fit.

Why?
- dingo8urbaby

Because I've yet to see him be the man to lead his team to a Cup. When Lemieux won his Cups, he had a great supporting cast. But there was no doubt that Lemieux was the reason they won. Same with Gretzky. When the Pens won, he wasn't their best player. To begin the "legendary" talk, he needs to be come out and just take over and entire playoffs like those guys did.

What is the plan to get under the cap?
- Just5

hopefully move niskanen for some tape and call it a day

Because I've yet to see him be the man to lead his team to a Cup. When Lemieux won his Cups, he had a great supporting cast. But there was no doubt that Lemieux was the reason they won. Same with Gretzky. When the Pens won, he wasn't their best player. To begin the "legendary" talk, he needs to be come out and just take over and entire playoffs like those guys did.
- jmatchett383

they are valid points. however 45 point runs are going to be a thing of the past i think

I...don't follow. I sense sarcasm, though.
- jmatchett383

Not sarcastic. You just seem like a guy who enjoys "the good ole days."

It's not a bad thing so don't take it that way.

i view it a little differently. mcgwire cheating directly influenced the stats that made him a legend. so hes out in my book. there is no redeeming that. lebron being a douche bag doesnt make him any taller, faster or stronger. a mouthful of sour milk to swallow yes, but not any less of a great player.

and its a stretch of an example because it was a subpar goal, but plenty of people outside pittsburgh will talk about his gold medal goal for a long while
- stayinthefnnet

They'll talk about that goal in the same way they talk about Paul Henderson. But to me, he's not legendary (and he should not be a member of the HHOF). That's like saying if Ryan Getzlaf had scored the goal, he would be legendary.

same. for some reason a lot of pens fans arent too fond of him it seems. i love what he brings, and right now it is a perfect fit.
- stayinthefnnet

They'd miss him if he was gone. They were probably expecting him to be a 30 goal scorer because he was traded for Staal. He's not that type of player. Some people can't recognize value without looking at stats.

hopefully move niskanen for some tape and call it a day
- stayinthefnnet

Who gets moved first: Niskanen or Mezsaros?

I want to see Crosby come out and dominate an entire playoff run. Put the team on his back and rack up 45 points in a SC run. Then we'll talk.
- jmatchett383

Gretzky hold the NHL record for the most NHL records. That is Legend. He is argueably the most dominate sports figure in the history of the top 4 sports. I hesitate to call just about anyone else a legend, because to me that would be like putting them on the same level.

You want to say Howe, Orr, etc are legends, fine, then Gretzky is a demi-god.

they are valid points. however 45 point runs are going to be a thing of the past i think
- stayinthefnnet

That's my point. Do the impossible. Be so otherwordly good that no one can question how good you are. Lead the league in points by 50. Score 80 goals. Do something that is insane to even consider.

Because I've yet to see him be the man to lead his team to a Cup. When Lemieux won his Cups, he had a great supporting cast. But there was no doubt that Lemieux was the reason they won. Same with Gretzky. When the Pens won, he wasn't their best player. To begin the "legendary" talk, he needs to be come out and just take over and entire playoffs like those guys did.
- jmatchett383

Do you think Lindros was Legendary?

Gretzky hold the NHL record for the most NHL records. That is Legend. He is argueably the most dominate sports figure in the history of the top 4 sports. I hesitate to call just about anyone else a legend, because to me that would be like putting them on the same level.

You want to say Howe, Orr, etc are legends, fine, then Gretzky is a demi-god.
- youarewrong

Probably he is. Heck, even with legends there'a a pecking order. In baseball, there's Babe Ruth and everyone else. In hockey, there's Gretzky and everyone else.

He'll be an amazing player in my book. But not a legend. To me, it's in the same region as McGwire. He did amazing things, but it's tainted. For Big Mac, it's tainted because he cheated. For LeBron, it's because he's a douche bag.

I don't have Crosby being held back because of his attitude. It's because he has yet to do anything where people (outside of Pittsburgh) will sit around and tell stories about the time they saw him play.

I saw Gretzky play 3 times, and I was in absolute awe each time. I saw Mario play twice and it was the same. I felt special to be in the same building as them. And players coming into the league felt the same way. I don't think there's been anyone that's come along since them that fits that. Like I said, Brodeur is probably the closest.
- jmatchett383

Patrick Roy was the other recent one.

That's my point. Do the impossible. Be so otherwordly good that no one can question how good you are. Lead the league in points by 50. Score 80 goals. Do something that is insane to even consider.
- jmatchett383

I think 80 goals is out of the question at this point. I don't even know when we'll see Ovechkins 65 again.

They'd miss him if he was gone. They were probably expecting him to be a 30 goal scorer because he was traded for Staal. He's not that type of player. Some people can't recognize value without looking at stats.
- PhillySportsGuy

i agree.

hes not staal. but then again, he was traded as one part of a package for him, and plays for a fraction of the cost.

its not necessarily the goals, but just the fact that he cant control possession like he did. however, i still think hell crack 20 this year, and he plays great defense. right now, he is a huge cap benefit too. definitely underappreciated.

Do you think Lindros was Legendary?
- PhillySportsGuy

If he didn't scramble his brains I would say he could have been. Back before he left the Flyers his PPG were 3rd behind Lemieux and Gretzky. The only reason they are much lower now if from his last days in NY, Tor, and Dallas.