Do you think Lindros was Legendary?
- PhillySportsGuy

No, because he never did any one thing that was legendary. He led his team to a SCF and put up 1 goal in the waning moments of the game where they got swept. He won 1 MVP award. He was the best all-around player in the league for about 4-5 years. He's a HOFer to me, but not near legendary status outside of Philadelphia.

I think 80 goals is out of the question at this point. I don't even know when we'll see Ovechkins 65 again.
- PhillySportsGuy

No one probably ever thought 200 points was attainable. Gretzky did it 4 times. The closest other player was Lemieux with 199. But that's my point. To be legendary, do something crazy impossible.

haha. I know. I still remember JR's goal and the silence that it brought. My favorite playoff moment of all time.
- PhillySportsGuy

I watched that game at an outdoor bar on Ocean Drive in Miami. On the street level, where the tables were set up, there was a contingient of about 20 Leaf fans. I was going back and forth all game with them. When JR scored a few of them burst into tears and audible sobs( and that was from the men) It was the greatest thing I had ever seen to that point

Who gets moved first: Niskanen or Mezsaros?
- PhillySportsGuy

hmm. thats tough. i dont know the whole waiting on mezzy to be healthy thing. ive heard hes doing well, but can he officially be moved yet?

mez is definitely the better player, but comes with the bigger cap hit. ill go out on a limb and say he goes, just because the flyers are less hesitant to make moves.

I did not see Orr play. I've seen highlights. Orr probally retired before I was born.... 1982?

But still, I don't think Orr's name stacks up with Gretzky...

I would say Orr has the same stature as say, Mickey Mantle does in baseball. Great all-time player, but Not Ruth, Aaron, DiMagio, Cy young.... know what I mean...
- youarewrong

I think you'll find a lot of people who've seen Orr play disagree with you. It's hard to judge when you don't see them.

How you can ignore Gordie Howe though is embarrassing frankly.

Patrick Roy was the other recent one.
- mayorofangrytown

True, Roy's probably up there. 4 Cups with 2 different teams, godfather of butterfly goaltending, got clotheslined by Shanny. Heck, that Det/Col game, now THAT is legendary. Probably the best NHL game ever.

They'll talk about that goal in the same way they talk about Paul Henderson. But to me, he's not legendary (and he should not be a member of the HHOF). That's like saying if Ryan Getzlaf had scored the goal, he would be legendary.
- jmatchett383

The goal is legendary, Henderson is not.

Much the way that Mike Eruzione isn't legendary, but that goal he scored in 1980 is. Although Henderson was a very good player for a long time, and Eruzione was basically a one fleeting moment of glory guy

True, Roy's probably up there. 4 Cups with 2 different teams, godfather of butterfly goaltending, got clotheslined by Shanny. Heck, that Det/Col game, now THAT is legendary. Probably the best NHL game ever.
- jmatchett383

Roy's run in 1993 is legendary. He was brilliant in that run.

That's my point. Do the impossible. Be so otherwordly good that no one can question how good you are. Lead the league in points by 50. Score 80 goals. Do something that is insane to even consider.
- jmatchett383

if we are using gretzky and marios dominance as the only thing to be considered legendary, then no. i dont think crosby has a shot.

i hate starting a sentence with if, but if crosby stays healthy for a full 82, its not out of the realm of possibility for him to put up 150-160 points in a league where the next best guy comes in around 110. and that is pretty ridiculous

hmm. thats tough. i dont know the whole waiting on mezzy to be healthy thing. ive heard hes doing well, but can he officially be moved yet?

mez is definitely the better player, but comes with the bigger cap hit. ill go out on a limb and say he goes, just because the flyers are less hesitant to make moves.
- stayinthefnnet

He can be moved any time. Injured players can't be demoted or bought out.

I did not see Orr play. I've seen highlights. Orr probally retired before I was born.... 1982?

But still, I don't think Orr's name stacks up with Gretzky...

I would say Orr has the same stature as say, Mickey Mantle does in baseball. Great all-time player, but Not Ruth, Aaron, DiMagio, Cy young.... know what I mean...
- youarewrong

I completely understand.

But when you discuss NHL D-men, the first name mentioned is Orr. Everyone else is a distant second. The only knock is longevity which makes for a valid argument.

But while he played, other than revolutionizing the position, he's the only d-man to win the scoring title (twice), racked up 8 Norris Trophy's in a row, and won the Hart three times, also in a row. And did all this while practically one one leg.

Not to mention, still holds the record for the most points scored in a year by a d-man.

It's all opinion, but he is not only the greatest d-man to lace them up, he's arguably one of the all time greats in the game.

I think you'll find a lot of people who've seen Orr play disagree with you. It's hard to judge when you don't see them.

How you can ignore Gordie Howe though is embarrassing frankly.
- mayorofangrytown

Orr changed the way the defensive position was played. He led the league in points as a defenseman. He had +/- numbers that are off the charts. Possibly the 2nd best stickhandler of all time after Lemieux. Maybe the best skater of all time.

Howe was Gretzky before Gretzky. Richard was Lemieux before Lemieux.

I watched that game at an outdoor bar on Ocean Drive in Miami. On the street level, where the tables were set up, there was a contingient of about 20 Leaf fans. I was going back and forth all game with them. When JR scored a few of them burst into tears and audible sobs( and that was from the men) It was the greatest thing I had ever seen to that point
- KINGKENZO

That OT probably had everyone with you shatting themselves. Best OT sequence EVER

hopefully move niskanen for some tape and call it a day
- stayinthefnnet

My take is the pens are weaker going into this year. I think Cooke and Kennedy are highly valuable as 3rd liners

Scuderi was a monster signing, the defense should be better. It all could be a wash Bc I think that highly of Scuderi. However the depth of the forward unit if the top 6 were to sustain injury is scarce

if we are using gretzky and marios dominance as the only thing to be considered legendary, then no. i dont think crosby has a shot.

i hate starting a sentence with if, but if crosby stays healthy for a full 82, its not out of the realm of possibility for him to put up 150-160 points in a league where the next best guy comes in around 110. and that is pretty ridiculous
- stayinthefnnet

To me, that's what he needs to do. Don't be the best player in the league. Blow away the rest of the league. Be so much better than no one can question you.

Gretzky hold the NHL record for the most NHL records. That is Legend. He is argueably the most dominate sports figure in the history of the top 4 sports. I hesitate to call just about anyone else a legend, because to me that would be like putting them on the same level.

You want to say Howe, Orr, etc are legends, fine, then Gretzky is a demi-god.
- youarewrong

Orr remains the greatest player I have ever seen, and I saw him when he was broken down near the end of his career. Gretzky's brilliance was not in his physical ability, but in his hockey smarts and on ice vision.

Orr was the complete package, amazing skater, great hockey sense, had a nasty streak to him, as well...and he did it on one leg. To undersell that because Gretzky piled up points in the highest scoring era in history, while a member of the highest scoring team, really undersells what Orr did.

To say that Orr isn't up there with Gretzky shows a marked ignorance of the history of the game.

Roy's run in 1993 is legendary. He was brilliant in that run.
- Jsaquella

There are very few players after 1990 that I felt something when I walked in the rink for warm ups. Lemieux, Gretzky and Roy.

Seeing Roy and Brodeur battle in a 1-0 game will stick with me as one of my great regular season in person hockey memories.

I watched that game at an outdoor bar on Ocean Drive in Miami. On the street level, where the tables were set up, there was a contingient of about 20 Leaf fans. I was going back and forth all game with them. When JR scored a few of them burst into tears and audible sobs( and that was from the men) It was the greatest thing I had ever seen to that point
- KINGKENZO

WOW that sounds amazing.

To me, that's what he needs to do. Don't be the best player in the league. Blow away the rest of the league. Be so much better than no one can question you.
- jmatchett383

honestly, i think the only thing he needs for that to happen is to stay healthy. which granted, i know theyve been freak accidents as far as chronic things, but he has not shown he has been able to do. but while on the ice, his production has been what we are referencing. look where he was at before he cracked his jaw. it took a long while before he was even passed while not playing.

That OT probably had everyone with you shatting themselves. Best OT sequence EVER
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. Every now and then, I'll throw that DVD in and just watch the OT. Same with TB Game 6, starting with the 3rd period. It's amazing what you could get away with back then. St. Louis is on a mini breakaway and someone (I think Radivojovic) basically just jumps on his back and there's no call.

I just want to talk about the best game I've ever been to. 1996 World Cup of Hockey semifinal, Sweden vs. Canada. 2nd event ever at the Corestates Center (first was USA/Canada, LeClair scored 1st goal in building). This was when Sweden and Canada were probably at their peaks, minus Lemieux. The game went to triple OT, and Yzerman scored 15 seconds shy of a 4th OT. I had no rooting interest in the game, but all throughout it, everyone in the building was cheering wildly for both teams. It was the best display of hockey I've ever witnessed live, and doubt anything will ever top it.

I think you'll find a lot of people who've seen Orr play disagree with you. It's hard to judge when you don't see them.

How you can ignore Gordie Howe though is embarrassing frankly.
- mayorofangrytown

How did I ignore Howe? I put him in a previous post, I was just rattling off names.

I did says that Orr and them are some of the greats all-time...

I just think people use Legend too loosely. Orr, one of the greatest. Gretzky and Lemieux... the greatest.

honestly, i think the only thing he needs for that to happen is to stay healthy. which granted, i know theyve been freak accidents as far as chronic things, but he has not shown he has been able to do. but while on the ice, his production has been what we are referencing. look where he was at before he cracked his jaw. it took a long while before he was even passed while not playing.
- stayinthefnnet

That's fine, but you can say the same about Lindros. If, if, if, if. I'm not understating his skill, but he needs to put aside the ifs and do it.

Orr remains the greatest player I have ever seen, and I saw him when he was broken down near the end of his career. Gretzky's brilliance was not in his physical ability, but in his hockey smarts and on ice vision.

Orr was the complete package, amazing skater, great hockey sense, had a nasty streak to him, as well...and he did it on one leg. To undersell that because Gretzky piled up points in the highest scoring era in history, while a member of the highest scoring team, really undersells what Orr did.

To say that Orr isn't up there with Gretzky shows a marked ignorance of the history of the game.
- Jsaquella

*THROWS ARMS IN THE AIR*

Thank you!!!!!

There are very few players after 1990 that I felt something when I walked in the rink for warm ups. Lemieux, Gretzky and Roy.

Seeing Roy and Brodeur battle in a 1-0 game will stick with me as one of my great regular season in person hockey memories.
- mayorofangrytown

Keith Primeau in 2004 certainly fits that bill.....


But yeah, when the Flyers were playing a Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Roy...I made sure I was early and watched those guys all night long.

^This deleted post scares and confuses me
EDIT: Nvm