if we are using gretzky and marios dominance as the only thing to be considered legendary, then no. i dont think crosby has a shot.

i hate starting a sentence with if, but if crosby stays healthy for a full 82, its not out of the realm of possibility for him to put up 150-160 points in a league where the next best guy comes in around 110. and that is pretty ridiculous
- stayinthefnnet

His career best is 120, and he's suffered numerous major injuries since then.

I saw a documentary on the Oilers from that era. They liked to have fun for sure. But with veterans like Glenn Anderson, and Kevin Lowe around they would reel in the young guys when need be.

Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Lowe, Anderson, Tikanien, Coffey, Fuhr. The Flyers who were depleted extending that 1987 Cup Final to a 7th game doesn't get enough credit. I have heard Gretzky say that was the toughest team he ever played against.
- PLindbergh31

The current group of Flyers need to be leaving more on the ice on a regular basis.

Extremely so, if half of what I have read is true. He'd fight people all the time-fans, other players, umps...just a hot headed jackass that seemed to despise everyone and everything
- Jsaquella

Doesn't make sense for a person that talented to behave that way. Actually talent really is irrelevant, for anyone to act that way is despicable.

The current group of Flyers need to be leaving more on the ice on a regular basis.
- Just5

Not sure how this relates to my post, but ok.... Effort is always good.

Primeau was on the Finals team in 1995, but was traded the next year
- Jsaquella

I know, I edited. I didn't really read what he wrote all the way. I assumed he meant 1997.

Malkin literally escaped Russia in secret to play in the NHL, I wouldn't worry about him running away from us to go back.
- JAKEw1234

The economics of the NHL and the KHL have changed since then, I think.

Extremely so, if half of what I have read is true. He'd fight people all the time-fans, other players, umps...just a hot headed jackass that seemed to despise everyone and everything
- Jsaquella

no doubt

that being said he might be one of the top 5 guys id love to travel back in time to watch play.
the talent and competitiveness mixed with the villainous qualities would be fascinating to witness in person, imo.

biggest heel ever?
or tied with Bonds?

FYI to anyone that clicked the link to the Cobb site. My work firewall returned the web-site as containing virus/phising and blocked me. Not the normal "access denied" that I normally get. Just be careful.

The current group of Flyers need to be leaving more on the ice on a regular basis.
- Just5

Last year they left their jocks all over the ice.

Gretzky has more assists than the next closest player has points.

If he never scored a goal he will still be the NHL all time leading scorer. By 76 points.

He has more goals than any other player by 93 goals.

He has 970(!) more points than the next closest player.

Mind boggling. The differences are so severe in my eyes, it makes him the best ever hands down.

Malkin literally escaped Russia in secret to play in the NHL, I wouldn't worry about him running away from us to go back.
- JAKEw1234

exactly. i cant speak for someone else, but i think he likes it here and wants to stay.

i just dont logically see how that will be the case. granted, i dont know if they have it in them to be consistent postseason winners, which is what they should be, but thats not the point youre making here. you are suggesting that they would become a subpar team trapped in cap hell. ive heard others try to make this argument before, and i just dont see how.

the only way this team totally becomes bottom feeders is if they lose crosby to injury and say malkin bolts, but if that occurred, wouldnt they not be in cap hell anymore? the cap is by all accounts going to go up. and even with what it is at right now, they are able to field a pretty damn decent team. like i said, whether they execute to their ability is one thing, but a team led by crosby and malkin isnt all of a sudden going to be in the draft lottery
- stayinthefnnet

Because its not logical. The Pens future supposed cap hell is greatly exaggerated.

FYI to anyone that clicked the link to the Cobb site. My work firewall returned the web-site as containing virus/phising and blocked me. Not the normal "access denied" that I normally get. Just be careful.
- youarewrong

i clicked on it and had it open for like 20 seconds.
I didnt get any bad message though.
am i (frank)ed?

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. Maybe there is a difference in how we define legend, maybe you have beef against Gretzky, or a boner for Orr. I dont know.
- youarewrong

The best hockey players of all time were 66 and Orr... 99 has all the records, but it was a perfect storm of era, plus great teammates, plus longevity/health.

Last year they left their jocks all over the ice.
- mayorofangrytown

Someone was compairing Giroux's numbers at 22 to Tavares numbers at 22. All I was saying is Tavares had better numbers becuase he was a number 1 center and Giroux was 3rd line center. You misunderstood.
- youarewrong

Fair enough. I still think it's a bit flawed to compare their place on the depth chart at age 22 given the disparity in talent on both teams. The other centers on the Isles last year (when Tavares was 22) were Brad Boyes, Frans Nielsen, Marty Reasoner, and Casey Cizikas. Hardly the same level of competition Giroux faced when he was 22 (Richards, Carter, Briere). There is no doubt in my mind that a 22 year old Giroux would have been the number 1 center on the Isles last year if they did not have Tavares.

His career best is 120, and he's suffered numerous major injuries since then.
- Feanor

he averages like between 1.6 and 1.7 points in his last 100 games. 160 may be pushing it, but who is coming close to that if it can be sustained over 82? like i said, the if is the question here. not the result

The best hockey players of all time were 66 and Orr... 99 has all the records, but it was a perfect storm of era, plus great teammates, plus longevity/health.
- Tomahawk

Oh c'mon... Really?

Because its not logical. The Pens future supposed cap hell is greatly exaggerated.
- Just5

yeah. now if someone wants to argue that they dont have the drive to nut up in the playoffs, thats an argument that can be had. but for the team to just disintegrate is absolutely absurd.

Fair enough. I still think it's a bit flawed to compare their place on the depth chart at age 22 given the disparity in talent on both teams 22. The other centers on the Isles last year (when he was 22) were Brad Boyes, Frans Nielsen, Marty Reasoner, and Casey Cizikas. Hardly the same level of competition Giroux faced when he was 22 (Richards, Carter, Briere). There is no doubt in my mind that a 22 year old Giroux would have been the number 1 center on the Isles last year if they did not have Tavares.
- BringBack25

Not to mention Tavares would have been moved to wing to accommodate him.

Fair enough. I still think it's a bit flawed to compare their place on the depth chart at age 22 given the disparity in talent on both teams 22. The other centers on the Isles last year (when he was 22) were Brad Boyes, Frans Nielsen, Marty Reasoner, and Casey Cizikas. Hardly the same level of competition Giroux faced when he was 22 (Richards, Carter, Briere). There is no doubt in my mind that a 22 year old Giroux would have been the number 1 center on the Isles last year if they did not have Tavares.
- BringBack25

The beginning of the thread people were talking about teams futures and someone put

Giroux>Tavares

I disagreed. I'd take Tavares everything considered including age, contract, etc. if I'm starting from scratch.

I think that's where it started

Because its not logical. The Pens future supposed cap hell is greatly exaggerated.
- Just5

I do see a depth issue in that they pay 3 of their players almost 40% of their cap, but they just have to cheap out on wingers who play out of their pay grade because they are compatible with Crosby and Malkin.=, like they've already done with Kunitz and Dupuis.

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.

i clicked on it and had it open for like 20 seconds.
I didnt get any bad message though.
am i (frank)ed?
- Crimsoninja

keep chipping

I do see a depth issue in that they pay 3 of their players almost 40% of their cap, but they just have to cheap out on wingers who play out of their pay grade because they are compatible with Crosby and Malkin.=, like they've already done with Kunitz and Dupuis.
- JAKEw1234

exactly. theyre going to need to figure something out in a few years when they get too old, but for now they are fine there.

even if they have to place in lower place guys, that lack of depth will kill you in the playoffs, but they will be more than able to make due in the regular season. which i know isnt exactly a big win, but that wasnt the point of the original poster i believe