The beginning of the thread people were talking about teams futures and someone put

Giroux>Tavares

I disagreed. I'd take Tavares everything considered including age, contract, etc. if I'm starting from scratch.

I think that's where it started
- Just5

i do think giroux is a premier player, but i agree as well. tavares is going to be pretty special. if i had the choice id take him over stammer as well.

i just dont logically see how that will be the case. granted, i dont know if they have it in them to be consistent postseason winners, which is what they should be, but thats not the point youre making here. you are suggesting that they would become a subpar team trapped in cap hell. ive heard others try to make this argument before, and i just dont see how.

the only way this team totally becomes bottom feeders is if they lose crosby to injury and say malkin bolts, but if that occurred, wouldnt they not be in cap hell anymore? the cap is by all accounts going to go up. and even with what it is at right now, they are able to field a pretty damn decent team. like i said, whether they execute to their ability is one thing, but a team led by crosby and malkin isnt all of a sudden going to be in the draft lottery
- stayinthefnnet

My opinion is the cap will eventually plateau. But regardless, with Malkins, Crosbys, and Letangs contracts it will be hard to ice a decent cast of supporting players. Soon Neal will need a new contract. I'm not saying its going to happen right away, but... So I expect them to be good for another 3-4 years, and with that comes low draft picks that wont will the holes of guys leaving like Dupuis etc... and you wont be able to get UFAs to sign because of cap...

i do think giroux is a premier player, but i agree as well. tavares is going to be pretty special. if i had the choice id take him over stammer as well.
- stayinthefnnet

Really, Tavares over Stamkos?

Gretzky has more assists than the next closest player has points.

If he never scored a goal he will still be the NHL all time leading scorer. By 76 points.

He has more goals than any other player by 93 goals.

He has 970(!) more points than the next closest player.

Mind boggling. The differences are so severe in my eyes, it makes him the best ever hands down.
- MBFlyerfan

THANK YOU!

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.
- opeth_pa

Mario... the guy was literally unstoppable in an era of clutch/grab/trap/great goalies.

Fair enough. I still think it's a bit flawed to compare their place on the depth chart at age 22 given the disparity in talent on both teams. The other centers on the Isles last year (when Tavares was 22) were Brad Boyes, Frans Nielsen, Marty Reasoner, and Casey Cizikas. Hardly the same level of competition Giroux faced when he was 22 (Richards, Carter, Briere). There is no doubt in my mind that a 22 year old Giroux would have been the number 1 center on the Isles last year if they did not have Tavares.
- BringBack25

I agree. I was defensing Giroux. Saying the reason he didnt score as much is because he was behind in the depth chart... Not at Giroux fault.

The best hockey players of all time were 66 and Orr... 99 has all the records, but it was a perfect storm of era, plus great teammates, plus longevity/health.
- Tomahawk

I want to believe this, because I always felt Gretzky was a "scorer" not a "hockey player", in that he did not play a complete game and never did anything remotely physical.

But if I'm honest with myself I have to say 99 was so much better than everyone else at the things he did well, that he has to be considered the the best of all time. And it really pains me to write that, but it's true. As MBFlyerfan has pointed out, nobody comes close to his numbers, and probably never will.

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.
- opeth_pa

Gretzky with no clutching and grabbing.... yea.

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.
- opeth_pa

Gretzky was before my time, but just from my understanding of his game and watching some of his tapes I have a problem with a lot of people that say he was the best there ever was. I think it was NHL network that made a montage of the top 10 goals of all time. In that top 10 was a Gretzky goal where literally all he did was carry the puck down low, the goalie flew out of the crease and ended up on his ass leaving an empty net, Gretzky skated around the net and put in the empty netter. I was just like, "that was one of the top 10 goals of all time? Really?". I think Gretzky was amazing, don't get me wrong. I just think the game was so different then, the goalie style so much more reckless, and prone to letting in so many more goals, that I think Gretzky playing today wouldn't put up any more points than Stamkos or Ovechkin or Crosby (in a full season). I think 1 goal back then is not equal to 1 goal now. The game is just so different. I hear people who watched the game then say that most players today wouldn't be able to survive in the league back then. I think it's the opposite, and a lot of players from then wouldn't be so far and above in today's game. That being said, I'd take Orr. If you have the choice between a superstar forward and a superstar dman, you've gotta go dman and build out.

Regular season records (40)[edit]Most goals: 894 in 1,487 games
Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games
Most goals, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
Most goals, one season, including playoffs: 100 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 regular season games and 13 goals in 19 playoff games
Most goals, 50 games from start of season: 61 in 1981–82 (October 7, 1981 to January 22, 1982, 80-game schedule) and 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 25, 1984), 80-game schedule
Most goals, one period: 4 (Tied with 10 other players) February 18, 1981
Most assists: 1,963
Most assists, including playoffs: 2,223
Most assists, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
Most assists, one season, including playoffs: 174 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 regular season games and 11 assists in 10 playoff games
Most assists, one game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) on three occasions—February 15, 1980; December 11, 1985; February 14, 1986
Most assists, one road game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) December 11, 1985
Most points: 2,857 in 1,487 games (894 goals, 1,963 assists)
Most points, including playoffs: 3,239 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games. (1016 goals, 2223 assists)
Most points, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule (52 goals, 163 assists)
Most points, one season, including playoffs: 255 in 1984–85; 208 points in 80 regular season games and 47 points in 18 playoff games
Most overtime assists, career: 15
Most goals by a center, career: 894
Most goals by a center, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
Most assists by a center, career: 1,963
Most assists by a center, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
Most points by a center, career: 2,857
Most points by a center, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
Most assists in one game by a player in his first season: 7 on February 15, 1980
Highest goals-per-game average, one season: 1.18 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 games
Highest assists-per-game average, career (300 min.): 1.321 -- 1,963 assists in 1,487 games
Highest assists-per-game average, one season: 2.04 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 games
Highest points-per-game average, one season (among players with 50-or-more points): 2.77 in 1983–84, 205 points in 74 games
Most 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 in 20 seasons
Most consecutive 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 from 1979–80 to 1990–91
Most 50-or-more goal seasons: 9 (tied with Mike Bossy)
Most 60-or-more goal seasons: 5 (tied with Mike Bossy)
Most consecutive 60-or-more goals seasons: 4 from 1981–82 to 1984–85
Most 100-or-more point seasons: 15
Most consecutive 100-or-more point seasons: 13 from 1979–80 to 1991–92
Most three-or-more goal games, career: 50 -- 37 three-goal (hat trick) games; nine four-goal games; four five-goal games
Most three goal games, one season: 10 (done twice) in 1981–82 and 1983–84
Longest consecutive assist scoring streak: 23 games in 1990–91, 48 assists
Longest consecutive point-scoring streak: 51 Games in 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984, 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points)
Longest consecutive point-scoring streak from start of season: 51 in 1983–84; 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984)

Playoff records (15)[edit]Most playoff goals, career: 122
Most playoff assists, career: 260
Most assists, one playoff year: 31 in 1988 (19 games)
Most assists in one series (other than final): 14 (tied with Rick Middleton) in 1985 Conference Finals (six games vs. Chicago)
Most assists in final series: 10 in 1988 (four games, plus suspended game vs. Boston)
Most assists, one playoff game: 6 (tied with Mikko Leinonen) on April 9, 1987
Most assists, one playoff period: 3 -- Three assists by one player in one period of a playoff game has been recorded on 70 occasions, five of them by Gretzky
Most points, career: 382 -- 122 goals and 260 assists
Most points, one playoff year: 47 in 1985 (17 goals and 30 assists in 18 games)
Most points in final series: 13 in 1988 three goals and 10 assists (four games plus suspended game vs. Boston, three goals)
Most points, one playoff period: 4 (tied with nine other players)
Most short-handed goals, one playoff year: 3 (tied with five other players) 1983
Most short-handed goals, one playoff game: 2 (tied with eight other players) April 6, 1983
Most game-winning goals in playoffs, career: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)
Most three-or-more goals games (hat trick): 10 (eight three-goal games, two four-goal games)
All-Star records (6)[edit]Most All-Star game goals, career: 13 (in 18 games played)
Most All-Star game goals, one game: 4 (tied with three players) 1983 Campbell Conference
Most All-Star game goals, one period: 4 1983 Campbell Conference, third period
Most All-Star game assists, career: 12 (tied with four others)
Most All-Star game points, career: 25 (13 goals, 12 assists in 18 games)
Most All-Star game points, one period: 4 (tied with Mike Gartner and Adam Oates) 1983 Campbell Conference, third period (four goals)

Unofficial records[edit]Along with his numerous official records, Wayne Gretzky also has many "unofficial" records. These other records are not recognized by the NHL Official Guide and Record Book.

Youngest player to score 50 goals in a season (19 years, two months)
Most points by an NHL player in his first year: 137. Because of Gretzky's season played in the WHA, he was not considered a rookie in his first year, so the rookie record belongs to Teemu Selanne with 132
Most assists by an NHL player in his first year: 86. The rookie record is held jointly by Peter Stastny and Joe Juneau with 70 assists. Note that the record book gives Gretzky the record for most assists and points in a game as a first year player, but not the season totals
Most 200-or-more point seasons: 4. Gretzky owns the official record for most 100 point seasons. He is the only player to reach 200 points in a season
Most consecutive 200 point seasons: 3
Most 70-or-more goal seasons: 4. The NHL has a record for most 60 goal seasons, but not 70. Eight players have achieved 70 goals, and Brett Hull did so three times.
Most consecutive 70 goal seasons: 4
Most 80-or-more goal seasons: 2
Most 90-or-more goal seasons: 1. Gretzky is the only player to achieve this
Fastest 50 goals from start of season: 50 goals in 39 games. 50 goals in 50 games is labelled as the most difficult one to break of all of Gretzky's records. The NHL has an official record for the most goals in 50 games, but not the fastest 50 goals
Fastest 100 points: 34 games in 1983–84
Most seasons averaging at least 1 point per game: 19
Most consecutive seasons averaging at least 1 point per game: 19
Most seasons averaging at least 2 points per game: 10
Most consecutive seasons averaging at least 2 points per game: 9
Most game-winning goals in the playoffs: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)
Most 100-or-more assist seasons: 11
Most consecutive 100-or-more assist seasons: 11
Most NHL and WHA regular season assists: 2,027
Most NHL and WHA regular season points: 2,967
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff goals: 1,072 (one more than Gordie Howe)
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff assists: 2,297
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff points: 3,369
Most MVP awards (Hart Trophy): 9
Most scoring championships (Art Ross Trophy): 10
Largest margin of victory in the scoring race: 79 (in 1983–84)
Most seasons where he was his team's leading scorer: 19
Most official NHL records: 61 on retirement, 60 at present
Highest Plus/Minus in a single playoff year: +28 (1984–85)
Highest Plus/Minus by a forward, single season: +98
Highest Plus/Minus by a forward, career: +518
The following are milestone records:

Only Player To Reach 2000 Career Points
Only Player To Reach 3000 Career Points, Regular Season and Playoffs combined
Only Player To Reach 1000 Career Goals, Regular Season and Playoffs combined
Only Player To Reach 2000 Career Assists, Regular Season and Playoffs combined
Goals
Youngest 100 Goals (20 years, 40 days)
Fastest & Youngest 200 Goals (242 games)- Modern Record, Cy Denneny scored 200 goals in 181 games, (21 years, 256 days)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Goals (350 games), (22 years, 321 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Goals (436 games), (23 years, 352 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Goals (575 games), (25 years, 299 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Goals (718 games, one less than Mario Lemieux), (27 years, 302 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Goals (886 games), (29 years, 342 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Goals (1116 games), (33 years, 53 days)
Assists
Fastest 100 Assists (92 games)
Fastest & Youngest 200 Assists (165 games), (20 years 265 days)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Assists (229 games), (21 years 43 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Assists (290 games), (21 years 362 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Assists (352 games), (22 years 325 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Assists (416 games), (23 years 307 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Assists (478 games), (24 years 267 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Assists (527 games), (25 years 11 days)
Fastest & Youngest 900 Assists (584 games), (25 years 320 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1000 Assists (645 games), (26 years 282 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1100 Assists (706 games), (27 years 276 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1200 Assists (774 games), (28 years 65 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1300 Assists (846 games), (29 years 50 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1400 Assists (913 games), (30 years 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1500 Assists (986 games), (31 years 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1600 Assists (1068 games), (32 years 308 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1700 Assists (1179 games), (34 years 267 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1800 Assists (1286 games), (35 years 322 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1900 Assists (1404 games), (37 years 54 days)
Points
Fastest 100 Points (61 games)- Modern Record, Joe Malone and Newsy Lalonde share the record by scoring 100 points in 51 games.[1]
Fastest 200 Points (117 games)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Points (159 games), (20 years, 67 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Points (197 games), (20 years, 335 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Points (234 games), (21 years, 52 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Points (274 games), (21 years, 330 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Points (317 games), (22 years, 62 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Points (352 games), (22 years, 325 days)
Fastest & Youngest 900 Points (385 games), (23 years, 47 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1000 Points (424 games), (23 years, 328 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1100 Points (464 games), (24 years, 50 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1200 Points (504 games), (24 years, 321 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1300 Points (539 games), (25 years, 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1400 Points (580 games), (25 years, 313 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1500 Points (620 games), (26 years, 44 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1600 Points (667 games), (26 years, 330 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1700 Points (711 games), (27 years, 285 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1800 Points (754 games), (28 years, 23 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1900 Points (803 games), (28 years, 318 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2000 Points (857 games), (29 years, 273 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2100 Points (908 games), (30 years, 27 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2200 Points (962 games), (30 years, 349 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2300 Points (1026 games), (32 years, 39 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2400 Points (1091 games), (32 years, 351 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2500 Points (1165 games), (34 years, 81 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2600 Points (1244 games), (35 years, 52 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2700 Points (1331 games), (36 years, 67 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2800 Points (1422 games), (37 years, 264 days)

The defense rests.

jeepers

jeepers
- Crimsoninja

Hey Crims!

When are we getting the schedule man?

Roenick, Zhamnov and Amonte carried through the first round. He did virtually nothing. He had the ONE big game against Toronto and in the deciding game didn't even sniff the net. They lost in 7 to Tampa Bay. His big moment was game 6 when he tied it late and set up Gagne in OT.

He had two more points than Zhamnov during his "amazing" playoff run.

He had one fewer point in that run than he did in his previous four playoff runs with the Flyers total. Would have been nice if the "Hero" showed up for more than a month in 5 years.
- mayorofangrytown

I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I thought he was great during those playoffs. I loved that team

Hey Crims!

When are we getting the schedule man?

- mayorofangrytown

no clue sir
whenever the Icon Richie18 tweets it i suppose

The beginning of the thread people were talking about teams futures and someone put

Giroux>Tavares

I disagreed. I'd take Tavares everything considered including age, contract, etc. if I'm starting from scratch.

I think that's where it started
- Just5

In the 90's it didn't really matter if a team was good or bad, it seemed to me everyone in the league had a dynamic duo of some sort. A top line. I think the cap was put in place to place every team in the league on even ground. Has this really happened? I feel the league was slightly better off prior when every team in the league had st least two studs up front giving their team a chance to win. It's as if the future of the league is bleac but I do feel the 90's had more sexy names and entertaining rivalries.

Whate the buzz today?

Whate the buzz today?
- SMS4016

Eagerly awaiting the Weber trade tomorrow

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. Maybe there is a difference in how we define legend, maybe you have beef against Gretzky, or a boner for Orr. I dont know.
- youarewrong

Neither. I just understand that Orr is on the same level as Gretzky, because I do more than look at stats and go WOW

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.
- opeth_pa

Mario or Orr, probably Orr.

Neither. I just understand that Orr is on the same level as Gretzky, because I do more than look at stats and go WOW
- Jsaquella

And somehow I end up always getting called out for attacking other people...

Roenick, Zhamnov and Amonte carried through the first round. He did virtually nothing. He had the ONE big game against Toronto and in the deciding game didn't even sniff the net. They lost in 7 to Tampa Bay. His big moment was game 6 when he tied it late and set up Gagne in OT.

He had two more points than Zhamnov during his "amazing" playoff run.

He had one fewer point in that run than he did in his previous four playoff runs with the Flyers total. Would have been nice if the "Hero" showed up for more than a month in 5 years.
- mayorofangrytown

If you consider goals and points everything in hockey, then you're correct. If you consider the fact that a known scoring player was willing to put his pride aside and check opposing teams best players in a more defensive role, then he would be considered a hero. Primeau was pretty good in my opinion in all three rounds. I remember him crashing Brodeur every chance he got and scoring once or twice in the process. If anything John Leclair was the disappointment. Keith Primeau gave everything he had.

So here is a question for everyone ..

You can pick 1 of the following to start your franchise, you get that player in his prime in today's game, who do you pick?

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe

I am pretty sure I would go Mario with Orr a close second.
- opeth_pa

Orr.

Without hesitation.