You cannot underestimate masons ability to move the puck. That is actually reason #1 for me being ok with the bryz buyout.
- Just5

cant believe how refreshing it was to see a flyers goalie handle the puck like that


night and day compared to bryz

cant believe how refreshing it was to see a flyers goalie handle the puck like that


night and day compared to bryz
- Crimsoninja

It's why brodeur is still in the league

I have to disagree here. Hockey is Hockey. And Gretzky or Lemieux playing today in their prime. Would blow away Stamkos, Crosby, or Ovechkin in scoring. It wouldn't be close.
- MJL

But hockey 2013 is worlds different than hockey 1981. If scoring over 80 goals was remotely possible in today's game, I think it would've been done already. I don't think it's for a lack of skill, but the high bar has been set to 60-65 in this era, and I don't think Gretzky in his prime would be able to step in and make that number look like a warm up. He might (MIGHT) get to 70, but honestly I couldn't see him scoring more than that.

But hockey 2013 is worlds different than hockey 1981. If scoring over 80 goals was remotely possible in today's game, I think it would've been done already. I don't think it's for a lack of skill, but the high bar has been set to 60-65 in this era, and I don't think Gretzky in his prime would be able to step in and make that number look like a warm up. He might (MIGHT) get to 70, but honestly I couldn't see him scoring more than that.
- JAKEw1234

There isn't a player in today's game that is remotely close to the offensive skill level that Gretzky and Lemieux had.

But hockey 2013 isn't worlds different than hockey 1981. If scoring over 80 goals was remotely possible in today's game, I think it would've been done already. I don't think it's for a lack of skill, but the high bar has been set to 60-65 in this era, and I don't think Gretzky in his prime would be able to step in and make that number look like a warm up. He might (MIGHT) get to 70, but honestly I couldn't see him scoring more than that.
- JAKEw1234

nor do i. the game as a whole was much more open back then. i do think hed lead the league though. yes the numbers may be slightly skewed, but i still think regardless of the playing field, gretz and mario would be at the top.

There isn't a player in today's game that is remotely close to the offensive skill level that Gretzky and Lemieux had.
- MJL

nope. crosby and malkin, who i think are one two, are both lesser versions of each of them.

Eagerly awaiting the Weber trade tomorrow
- JAKEw1234

YES! I was wondering when that date was.

YES! I was wondering when that date was.
- aosplayo

SHENANIGANS

http://m.youtube.com/watc...FZG8KQJni8&feature=relmfu

I think you'll find a lot of people who've seen Orr play disagree with you. It's hard to judge when you don't see them.

How you can ignore Gordie Howe though is embarrassing frankly.
- mayorofangrytown

Agreed. Sad that the NHL doesn't do more to tell the stories of its great former players.

Bobby Orr is the best player ever, in my opinion. Had his knees held together a little longer, it would have helped his case, stats-wise, but for those who saw him play -- or take the time to find clips or even full games of him playing -- it is quite apparent he is at least one of the top 3 to ever play the game.

Agreed. Sad that the NHL doesn't do more to tell the stories of its great former players.

Bobby Orr is the best player ever, in my opinion. Had his knees held together a little longer, it would have helped his case, stats-wise, but for those who saw him play -- or take the time to find clips or even full games of him playing -- it is quite apparent he is at least one of the top 3 to ever play the game.
- Flyskippy

Who knows what would have happened if his left knee wasn't so badly damaged over the years. And even then, nobody could skate like he could. He changed the game. Very few players can say they changed the game. Orr probably could have played Forward and scored who knows how many more points.

Love the debate going on... I often have this debate with coworkers. Most of them lean toward gretzgy. I've learned that most state his records for their decision. I'm 38 and saw gretzgy play but was a little young to understand how he dominated so much in his era. Now that I'm older and have seen many clips of Orr and interviews and such of him my vote goes to Orr without a doubt or hesitation. I say this because when you see people talk of Orr that saw he come into league they just glow in awe. I would even take a healthy Mario over gretzgy. I think if you Could put Orr Mario or gretzgy in any era of play at anytime Orr would just be special. It's kinda like Yankee fans saying " oh look at all the championships" it's all relavant. Orr could dominate in any way possible offensive defense special teams fighting. Gretzgy couldn't.

Love the debate going on... I often have this debate with coworkers. Most of them lean toward gretzgy. I've learned that most state his records for their decision. I'm 38 and saw gretzgy play but was a little young to understand how he dominated so much in his era. Now that I'm older and have seen many clips of Orr and interviews and such of him my vote goes to Orr without a doubt or hesitation. I say this because when you see people talk of Orr that saw he come into league they just glow in awe. I would even take a healthy Mario over gretzgy. I think if you Could put Orr Mario or gretzgy in any era of play at anytime Orr would just be special. It's kinda like Yankee fans saying " oh look at all the championships" it's all relavant. Orr could dominate in any way possible offensive defense special teams fighting. Gretzgy couldn't.
- SMS4016

is the constant use of 2 gs in gretzky intentional haha

Love the debate going on... I often have this debate with coworkers. Most of them lean toward gretzgy. I've learned that most state his records for their decision. I'm 38 and saw gretzgy play but was a little young to understand how he dominated so much in his era. Now that I'm older and have seen many clips of Orr and interviews and such of him my vote goes to Orr without a doubt or hesitation. I say this because when you see people talk of Orr that saw he come into league they just glow in awe. I would even take a healthy Mario over gretzgy. I think if you Could put Orr Mario or gretzgy in any era of play at anytime Orr would just be special. It's kinda like Yankee fans saying " oh look at all the championships" it's all relavant. Orr could dominate in any way possible offensive defense special teams fighting. Gretzgy couldn't.
- SMS4016

That's another thing that many don't know about Orr. He had a mean streak. And he could fight. He didn't take crap off of anyone.

That's another thing that many don't know about Orr. He had a mean streak. And he could fight. He didn't take crap off of anyone.
- MJL

i also wouldve agreed that a healthy 66 was better than gretzky, but i didnt want to be strung up for pens bias. however, for the better player all time of the two, as much as i love 66, his lack of health cost him that title from 99 in my opinion

Who knows what would have happened if his left knee wasn't so badly damaged over the years. And even then, nobody could skate like he could. He changed the game. Very few players can say they changed the game. Orr probably could have played Forward and scored who knows how many more points.
- MJL

Yup. Put him on a team full of All-Stars like Gretzky was and his numbers would be even more jarring.

Oh well, you can't fix history with could've been's but you can at least try to fix the misguided conclusions drawn by people whose evaluations are lacking.

Love the debate going on... I often have this debate with coworkers. Most of them lean toward gretzgy. I've learned that most state his records for their decision. I'm 38 and saw gretzgy play but was a little young to understand how he dominated so much in his era. Now that I'm older and have seen many clips of Orr and interviews and such of him my vote goes to Orr without a doubt or hesitation. I say this because when you see people talk of Orr that saw he come into league they just glow in awe. I would even take a healthy Mario over gretzgy. I think if you Could put Orr Mario or gretzgy in any era of play at anytime Orr would just be special. It's kinda like Yankee fans saying " oh look at all the championships" it's all relavant. Orr could dominate in any way possible offensive defense special teams fighting. Gretzgy couldn't.
- SMS4016

NHL record - Most shorthanded goals, career: Wayne Gretzky, 73

i also wouldve agreed that a healthy 66 was better than gretzky, but i didnt want to be strung up for pens bias. however, for the better player all time of the two, as much as i love 66, his lack of health cost him that title from 99 in my opinion
- stayinthefnnet

Lemieux *was* better than Gretzky. Had the Pens iced a roster akin to the Oilers, there's no question the gap would be closer -- or overcome.

Remember, we were the city that cheered him when he returned to the ice in 1993 after he underwent radiation therapy.

That's another thing that many don't know about Orr. He had a mean streak. And he could fight. He didn't take crap off of anyone.
- MJL

His scrums with Clarke are fun to watch.

is the constant use of 2 gs in gretzky intentional haha
- stayinthefnnet

Yes. And I I type it with an accent

There isn't a player in today's game that is remotely close to the offensive skill level that Gretzky and Lemieux had.
- MJL

No matter how much pundits want there to be. That was the beginning of the end for me with The Hockey News. Giving Crosby print exposure like he was destined to win a Stanley Cup, threaten Gretzky's records, etc. That and the departure of Bob McKenzie were the final nails in the coffin that was my subscription.

Lemieux *was* better than Gretzky. Had the Pens iced a roster akin to the Oilers, there's no question the gap would be closer -- or overcome.

Remember, we were the city that cheered him when he returned to the ice in 1993 after he underwent radiation therapy.
- Flyskippy

that is true. i was a little young at that time to fully appreciate it, but i remember seeing the clips and all.

the one thing i will say is that mario was so ridiculously physically blessed. not saying gretz was a total shrimp, but physically mario just had such a greater tool set and could do things that gretzky just couldnt. however, 99s cerebral advantage over everyone was disgusting

Yes. And I I type it with an accent
- SMS4016

haha fair enough

It's not going too far. There's still people that will tell you Orr is the greatest ever.

Sorry, but if you say that Orr isn't on the level of Gretzky and Lemieux, then you are wrong. I don't care if you watch black and white games, you obviously didn't understand what you were watching.

Had Orr played in the same era as Gretzky and gotten the same media attention, it'd be less than 9 out of 10 people saying Gretzky is the greatest ever.
- Jsaquella

So many of your posts since 4 (when I left work) deserve applause, so... here you go:

No matter how much pundits want there to be. That was the beginning of the end for me with The Hockey News. Giving Crosby print exposure like he was destined to win a Stanley Cup, threaten Gretzky's records, etc. That and the departure of Bob McKenzie were the final nails in the coffin that was my subscription.
- Flyskippy

true. with that kind of exposure forced down peoples throats, i can see why crosby already had a lot of biased against him from the start. but thats mainly just how the media runs today in sports. so frenzied desperate for the next big thing, that they will saturate coverage to make it so.

that is true. i was a little young at that time to fully appreciate it, but i remember seeing the clips and all.

the one thing i will say is that mario was so ridiculously physically blessed. not saying gretz was a total shrimp, but physically mario just had such a greater tool set and could do things that gretzky just couldnt. however, 99s cerebral advantage over everyone was disgusting
- stayinthefnnet

Lemieux, like Lindros, was not given the luxury of calls as much as Gretzky because of his bigger frame. Did he draw calls eventually because of his stature in the sport? Yes, but not like Gretzky did.

One of my favorite 66 memories is the spearing match with (I hate him!) Rich Pilon.