Gretzky's stats aren't inflated. You're making it seem like Gretzky scored all those points because of Goalies flopping on the ice. Which to be blunt, is absurd! I had the pleasure of seeing Gretzky play live a number of times. He was unstoppable. He an incredible shot. Both a slap shot and wrist shot. His playmaking and on ice vision would make Claude Giroux look like a chump. No offense to Giroux. Gretzky saw and created plays that nobody else saw. Not to mention the speed to his game. His talent and kill level was off the charts. And hasn't been duplicated since.
- MJL

I agree gretzgy was part of the super elite club, and that he would dominate in this era too but no way in hell he would put up 90 + and 200 + points nowadays. Therefor his stats ARE inflated related to the era game which overall has bigger faster better overall players. In summary to the original discussion I believe gretzgy Mario and Orr would be super elite to this era as well as their own eras but I'd say of the 3 Orr is the one that could change the game as it's played in any era as compared to just being super elite and dominating. Just my opinion.

I agree gretzgy was part of the super elite club, and that he would dominate in this era too but no way in hell he would put up 90 + and 200 + points nowadays. Therefor his stats ARE inflated related to the era game which overall has bigger faster better overall players. In summary to the original discussion I believe gretzgy Mario and Orr would be super elite to this era as well as their own eras but I'd say of the 3 Orr is the one that could change the game as it's played in any era as compared to just being super elite and dominating. Just my opinion.
- SMS4016

Everybody played on the same rink, with the same rules, in the same game. Nobody could touch him. Their dominance would be the same today, as it was then. Regardless of what the point totals are.

In the mid to late 90's, Gretzky still put up 90 point Seasons, and he was a shadow of the player he was in the 80's.

Not sure how anyone can make a case against Gretzky's greatness. Seems like an effort in futility to me.

Bringing up the era he played in relative to the NHL today doesn't really hold water. All of Gretzky's contemporaries played in the same era he did, and Gretzky's numbers dwarfed all of them.

Even when Gretzky left Edmonton where he was routinely putting up 200+ points while surrounded by Hall of Famers, he went to LA and was putting up monster numbers.

I'm not old enough to have seen Orr play, but it's hard to imagine anyone being better than Gretzky. They played different positions, I think what makes the most sense is to say they each were the best at their respective positions by a large margin.

It's flawed because it is a comparison of all the players in the League. I guess if you haven't seen them play, then you can't comprehend how much better they were then everybody else. What everybody else below them scored, is irrelevant. The totals may be less today, for a variety of reasons. But the gap between Gretzky and Lemieux, and the rest of the League. Would still be as large.
- MJL

I've never seen them live. So you have me there. I've watched plenty of video. I just cant imagine that Crosby isn't in their vicinity. If Crosby is about a 1.2 pt a game player which I think he has been. I think he can come close or touch them if he were have played in their era pointwise.

I never brought Malkin into the argument, and I wont bring anyone else playing now.

I've never seen them live. So you have me there. I've watched plenty of video. I just cant imagine that Crosby isn't in their vicinity. If Crosby is about a 1.2 pt a game player which I think he has been. I think he can come close or touch them if he were have played in their era pointwise.

I never brought Malkin into the argument, and I wont bring anyone else playing now.
- Just5

Trust me. Gretzky in his prime, and Crosby in his prime. It's not close. And that's not a knock on Crosby as a player. Same for Lemieux.

Everybody played on the same rink, with the same rules, in the same game. Nobody could touch him. Their dominance would be the same today, as it was then. Regardless of what the point totals are.

In the mid to late 90's, Gretzky still put up 90 point Seasons, and he was a shadow of the player he was in the 80's.
- MJL

Selanne had an 80 pt season at 40, and 90 and 94 pt seasons at 36 and 37

Selanne had an 80 pt season at 40, and 90 and 94 pt seasons at 36 and 37
- Just5

Yes he did. Not sure what that has to do with Gretzky. Gretzky scoring 90 pts is 125 pts below his career high. Put that in perspective with Selanne. Whose career high was his rookie year with 132 pts.

Everybody played on the same rink, with the same rules, in the same game. Nobody could touch him. Their dominance would be the same today, as it was then. Regardless of what the point totals are.

In the mid to late 90's, Gretzky still put up 90 point Seasons, and he was a shadow of the player he was in the 80's.
- MJL

Do you believe the players are bigger faster and overall talent in the league is better now than 30 years ago?

Do you believe the players are bigger faster and overall talent in the league is better now than 30 years ago?
- SMS4016

I think they're bigger and faster overall for sure. But I don't think the overall talent is better.

Trust me. Gretzky in his prime, and Crosby in his prime. It's not close. And that's not a knock on Crosby as a player. Same for Lemieux.
- MJL

I think you could easily argue that his hands were better than any player in the past 30 years. I think his hands won him a lot of 1 on 0 situations with the goalie, and he didn't need superstar finishing to put it away on the 15 feet out of the crease, fall into desperation mode when the puck gets near you goaltending of the day.

I've never seen them live. So you have me there. I've watched plenty of video. I just cant imagine that Crosby isn't in their vicinity.
- Just5

Honestly, he isn't.
I think a more realistic comparison could be made with Yzerman or Sakic or LaFontaine. Personally, I'd take Yzerman over him.

I think you could easily argue that his hands were better than any player in the past 30 years. I think his hands won him a lot of 1 on 0 situations with the goalie, and he didn't need superstar finishing to put it away on the 15 feet out of the crease, fall into desperation mode when the puck gets near you goaltending of the day.
- JAKEw1234

Right. God do the goalies suck when you watch them from that era

Trust me. Gretzky in his prime, and Crosby in his prime. It's not close. And that's not a knock on Crosby as a player. Same for Lemieux.
- MJL

If you had a time machine and took any of today's stars back to the early 80's they'd absolutely decimate the competition.

And if you brought any of the stars from that era to the present, they'd have a hell of a time keeping up.

Today's players are not only bigger, stronger, faster and better conditioned, they're also much more adept at dangling, playing pucks on the backhand, are more aware of on-ice situations (from studying film), and are much more attuned defensively (much more stress on two-way play starting from childhood).

A guy like Stamkos would have probably broken all of Gretzky's single-season records flying past those big pilons that passed for dmen, torching the primitive goaltending, and exploiting matchups against bottom sixes that were chock full of goons. Ditto Crosby, OV, Datsyuk, Giroux, etc.

Whereas we already witnessed what clutch and grab did to slow down Gretzky in his mid-30's... he probably could have played into his 40's, but he told his dad that the players were getting bigger and faster every year and he didn't think he could hang on.

I think you could easily argue that his hands were better than any player in the past 30 years. I think his hands won him a lot of 1 on 0 situations with the goalie, and he didn't need superstar finishing to put it away on the 15 feet out of the crease, fall into desperation mode when the puck gets near you goaltending of the day.
- JAKEw1234

So Gretzky scored all of his goals because the goaltending sucked? Same as he scored all those goals because of the bodyguard he had?

In your opinion, do you think Mike Bossy and Steven Stamkos are comparable players?

If you had a time machine and took any of today's stars back to the early 80's they'd absolutely decimate the competition.

And if you brought any of the stars from that era to the present, they'd have a hell of a time keeping up.

Today's players are not only bigger, stronger, faster and better conditioned, they're also much more adept at dangling, playing pucks on the backhand, are more aware of on-ice situations (from studying film), and are much more attuned defensively (much more stress on two-way play starting from childhood).

A guy like Stamkos would have probably broken all of Gretzky's single-season records flying past those big pilons that passed for dmen, torching the primitive goaltending, and exploiting matchups against bottom sixes that were chock full of goons. Ditto Crosby, OV, Datsyuk, Giroux, etc.

Whereas we already witnessed what clutch and grab did to slow down Gretzky in his mid-30's... he probably could have played into his 40's, but he told his dad that the players were just getting bigger and faster every year and he didn't think he could hang on.
- Tomahawk

No offense, but this post is embarrassing. There isn't a player today that can compare to the ability and talent that Gretzky had. To suggest otherwise, is absurd.
Gretzky was an outstanding skater who could absolutely fly. There were goal scorers in Gretzky's era such as Mike Bossy, that are comparable to Stamkos today. Who couldn't keep up with Gretzky.

Yzerman, Dionne, Trottier, Bossy, Savard, Kurri, would be absolute stars today, just as they were back then. But none of them could compare to Gretzky.

No offense, but this post is embarrassing. There isn't a player today that can compare to the ability and talent that Gretzky had. To suggest otherwise, is absurd.
Gretzky was an outstanding skater who could absolutely fly. There were goal scorers in Gretzky's era such as Mike Bossy, that are comparable to Stamkos today. Who couldn't keep up with Gretzky.
- MJL

You are aware that Gretzky was a poor skater, right? And weak of frame. There were a lot of questions whether he could even translate his amateur success over to the pros against bigger, meaner players.

99% of his success was due to his ability to think the game at a stratospheric level, and anticipate plays before they happened. Not because he was the fastest, most skilled player in the world.

weberwatch

No offense, but this post is embarrassing. There isn't a player today that can compare to the ability and talent that Gretzky had. To suggest otherwise, is absurd.
Gretzky was an outstanding skater who could absolutely fly. There were goal scorers in Gretzky's era such as Mike Bossy, that are comparable to Stamkos today. Who couldn't keep up with Gretzky.

Yzerman, Dionne, Trottier, Bossy, Savard, Kurri, would be absolute stars today, just as they were back then. But none of them could compare to Gretzky.
- MJL

How many goals could todays flyers score if you drop Andy Moog on the ice from 1983? Ok, give the flyers sticks from 30 years ago and I think it's about 15-20 Goals against

You are aware that Gretzky was a poor skater, right? And weak of frame. There were a lot of questions whether he could even translate his amateur success over to the pros against bigger, meaner players.

99% of his success was due to his ability to think the game at a stratospheric level, and anticipate plays before they happened. Not because he was the fastest, most skilled player in the world.
- Tomahawk

You couldn't be more incorrect about that. I watched him play in person. He was an outstanding skater. How'd did those questions work out? Teams tried to play him physically, and tried to lay the body on him. But they couldn't catch him. He may not have been the fastest, although an excellent skater. But he was easily the most skilled player in the World. And arguably the most skilled player to ever play the game.

How many goals could todays flyers score if you drop Andy Moog on the ice from 1983? Ok, give the flyers sticks from 30 years ago and I think it's about 15-20 Goals against
- Just5

Not 92!

I think they're bigger and faster overall for sure. But I don't think the overall talent is better.
- MJL

Wow. Just complete shock. I love todays talent. Most teams 30 years only had a few good players filled in with bums. Sorry that's the truth. Today's players even 4th line players have skill. Point being is there HAS. To be a reason for the goal diffence between eras. As stated by posters god only knows which ones are correct but we wi have to disagree I guess on gretzgy putting up Se numbers nowadays.

Part of the disparity between the point totals of Gretzky and Lemieux stems from goalies not being as technically sound or as big and well padded.

Ron Hextall and Tom Barrasso were the biggest goalies around in their early careers. Now, both would be average sized. In 1987, Hextall won the Vezina with a 3.00 GAA and a .902 save percentage. He was the only qualifying goalie in the entire NHL to get above .900.

Now, a .900 save % gets you bought out of the last 7 years of a 9 year contract.





Look at how much net Bryz takes up compared to Pelle. Even if the puck just hits the goalie, it has a better chance of staying out.

If you had a time machine and took any of today's stars back to the early 80's they'd absolutely decimate the competition.

And if you brought any of the stars from that era to the present, they'd have a hell of a time keeping up.

Today's players are not only bigger, stronger, faster and better conditioned, they're also much more adept at dangling, playing pucks on the backhand, are more aware of on-ice situations (from studying film), and are much more attuned defensively (much more stress on two-way play starting from childhood).

A guy like Stamkos would have probably broken all of Gretzky's single-season records flying past those big pilons that passed for dmen, torching the primitive goaltending, and exploiting matchups against bottom sixes that were chock full of goons. Ditto Crosby, OV, Datsyuk, Giroux, etc.Thank you expressing my thoughts better than I could

Whereas we already witnessed what clutch and grab did to slow down Gretzky in his mid-30's... he probably could have played into his 40's, but he told his dad that the players were getting bigger and faster every year and he didn't think he could hang on.
- Tomahawk

So Gretzky scored all of his goals because the goaltending sucked? Same as he scored all those goals because of the bodyguard he had?

In your opinion, do you think Mike Bossy and Steven Stamkos are comparable players?
- MJL

No I'm saying MANY of his scoring opportunities were 1 on 0s, and 1 on 0s were much easier to score then than they are now.

Part of the disparity between the point totals of Gretzky and Lemieux stems from goalies not being as technically sound or as big and well padded.

Ron Hextall and Tom Barrasso were the biggest goalies around in their early careers. Now, both would be average sized. In 1987, Hextall won the Vezina with a 3.00 GAA and a .902 save percentage. He was the only qualifying goalie in the entire NHL to get above .900.

Now, a .900 save % gets you bought out of the last 7 years of a 9 year contract.





Look at how much net Bryz takes up compared to Pelle. Even if the puck just hits the goalie, it has a better chance of staying out.
- Jsaquella

I agree with that. But that's a bad picture. For one Pelle is hunched over in the net, while Bryzgalov is standing more upright. Pelle looks like he's resting between play. And it's from different angles and distances. Goalies play bigger and have bigger pads.