No I'm saying MANY of his scoring opportunities were 1 on 0s, and 1 on 0s were much easier to score then than they are now.
- JAKEw1234

Can you provide some data on this?

No I'm saying MANY of his scoring opportunities were 1 on 0s, and 1 on 0s were much easier to score then than they are now.
- JAKEw1234

Matt Read would score 70 goals if he played on the oilers with gretzky and co.

I agree with that. But that's a bad picture. For one Pelle is hunched over in the net, while Bryzgalov is standing more upright. Pelle looks like he's resting between play. And it's from different angles and distances. Goalies play bigger and have bigger pads.
- MJL

If you had a time machine and took any of today's stars back to the early 80's they'd absolutely decimate the competition.

And if you brought any of the stars from that era to the present, they'd have a hell of a time keeping up.

Today's players are not only bigger, stronger, faster and better conditioned, they're also much more adept at dangling, playing pucks on the backhand, are more aware of on-ice situations (from studying film), and are much more attuned defensively (much more stress on two-way play starting from childhood).

A guy like Stamkos would have probably broken all of Gretzky's single-season records flying past those big pilons that passed for dmen, torching the primitive goaltending, and exploiting matchups against bottom sixes that were chock full of goons. Ditto Crosby, OV, Datsyuk, Giroux, etc.

Whereas we already witnessed what clutch and grab did to slow down Gretzky in his mid-30's... he probably could have played into his 40's, but he told his dad that the players were getting bigger and faster every year and he didn't think he could hang on.
- Tomahawk

still bitter eh?

No I'm saying MANY of his scoring opportunities were 1 on 0s, and 1 on 0s were much easier to score then than they are now.
- JAKEw1234

Really? Every time I saw a shooter vs. Bryzgalov in a 1 on 0s the shooter scored.

You couldn't be more incorrect about that. I watched him play in person. He was an outstanding skater. How'd did those questions work out? Teams tried to play him physically, and tried to lay the body on him. But they couldn't catch him. He may not have been the fastest, although an excellent skater. But he was easily the most skilled player in the World. And arguably the most skilled player to ever play the game.
- MJL

Take it from the contemporaries of his day (1:50):




And Gretzky only looked like he was always blazing by everybody because he was usually cherry-picking and was already behind the D to start the rush.

Gretzky's toolbox would be a lot like Mike Ribiero or Sam Gagner... small, elusive waterbug with great hands, but not the greatest skater. Of course, he'd do a lot more with those tools just based on his vision.

Take it from the contemporaries of his day (1:50):

And Gretzky only looked like he was always blazing by everybody because he was usually cherry-picking and was already behind the D to start the rush.

Gretzky's toolbox would be a lot like Mike Ribiero or Sam Gagner... small, elusive waterbug with great hands, but not the greatest skater. Of course, he'd do a lot more with those tools just based on his vision.
- Tomahawk

No, he didn't look like he was blazing by everybody. He was an outstanding skater, in his prime. I watched him play with my own eyes. One of his contemporaries of his time, Bryan Trottier, described trying to hit Gretzky, as trying to put your hands around fog. And again, comparing Gagner and Ribiero to Gretzky , is absurd.

Can you provide some data on this?
- MJL

Do they even record breakaways and partial breakaways as individual stats? I'm watching a few different long goal compilations of him. The majority of the goals in a few different long compilations have him with no defender between him and the goalie. Even if there is 1 defender, there are still a good number of goals where the goalie is on his ass, or so far out of the crease that Gretzky has essentially been left an empty net to shoot on. Again, I'm not doubting his skill, I just think it's unfair to say no one in today's game (or for the past 20 years, for that matter) has any comparable to him. Crosby's on-ice vision and playmaking ability can very much be compared to Gretzky.

while the topic is past players, has anyone read "The Final Call" by Kerry Fraser? just picked it up and looking forward to reading it (I usually hate reading books). I think it will have some good stories in it.

Take it from the contemporaries of his day (1:50):


And Gretzky only looked like he was always blazing by everybody because he was usually cherry-picking and was already behind the D to start the rush.

Gretzky's toolbox would be a lot like Mike Ribiero or Sam Gagner... small, elusive waterbug with great hands, but not the greatest skater. Of course, he'd do a lot more with those tools just based on his vision.
- Tomahawk

maybe not the fastest skater like Gartner or Bure but could turn on an instant without slowing down. Best player ever and won't be touched.

Do they even record breakaways and partial breakaways as individual stats? I'm watching a few different long goal compilations of him. The majority of the goals in a few different long compilations have him with no defender between him and the goalie. Even if there is 1 defender, there are still a good number of goals where the goalie is on his ass, or so far out of the crease that Gretzky has essentially been left an empty net to shoot on. Again, I'm not doubting his skill, I just think it's unfair to say no one in today's game (or for the past 20 years, for that matter) has any comparable to him. Crosby's on-ice vision and playmaking ability can very much be compared to Gretzky.
- JAKEw1234

Gretzky played over 1,400 NHL games and scored 894 goals. You watched a short highlight film. As great of a player as Crosby is. He doesn't compare to Gretzky or Lemieux.
894 empty net goals with the Goalie on his ass!

No, he didn't look like he was blazing by everybody. He was an outstanding skater, in his prime. I watched him play with my own eyes. One of his contemporaries of his time, Bryan Trottier, described trying to hit Gretzky, as trying to put your hands around fog. And again, comparing Gagner and Ribiero to Gretzky , is absurd.
- MJL

Sorry, 12:30 was the quote about his skating.

He didn't have to skate fast, because he was already headed to where the puck was going before anybody else on the ice could react.

Really? Every time I saw a shooter vs. Bryzgalov in a 1 on 0s the shooter scored.
- PLindbergh31

Ya but Bryz is (was?) one of the worst 1 on 0 goalies in the league. Most goalies are much better at 1 on 0s. Because now a 1 on 0 is handled by a good goalie with the logic of keep tight positioning, don't make the first move, cut down the angles, etc. Back then it seemed to be more like dive into stacked pads or out of the net and give the guy an empty net.

I am enjoying this Wayne G debate a lot. I saw The great Wayne play a few times in my earlier years. I will say he was a flat out beast. If you put Crosby or any other star from this era into his, I think they will find it harder to enter the zone. We all know the "Clutch and Brag" Dmen used. I think it goes either way. I will say the goalies are much better than the ones from the 80's.

Sorry, 12:30 was the quote about his skating.

He didn't have to skate fast, because he was already headed to where the puck was going before anybody else on the ice could react.
- Tomahawk

His anticipation and ability to read the play was unparalleled. But you're mistaken to suggest that he wasn't a very good skater. He absolutely was. Saw it with my own eyes.

while the topic is past players, has anyone read "The Final Call" by Kerry Fraser? just picked it up and looking forward to reading it (I usually hate reading books). I think it will have some good stories in it.
- dillpx183

I enjoy Kerry Frazer on TSN in a blog called "Come on Ref." Kerry usually reviews calls made or penalties given, I enjoyed Kerry a lot when he was still an active NHL ref

Ya but Bryz is (was?) one of the worst 1 on 0 goalies in the league. Most goalies are much better at 1 on 0s. Because now a 1 on 0 is handled by a good goalie with the logic of keep tight positioning, don't make the first move, cut down the angles, etc. Back then it seemed to be more like dive into stacked pads or out of the net and give the guy an empty net.
- JAKEw1234

I was just being a clown. I agree it's much harder to score on breakaways now then 30 years ago. Simply because the goaltenders are bigger, wear bigger pads, stronger, and faster. Not a hard concept to understand.

His anticipation and ability to read the play was unparalleled. But you're mistaken to suggest that he wasn't a very good skater. He absolutely was. Saw it with my own eyes.
- MJL

I agree with that statement

I was just being a clown. I agree it's much harder to score on breakaways now then 30 years ago. Simply because the goaltenders are bigger, wear bigger pads, stronger, and faster. Not a hard concept to understand.
- PLindbergh31

You clown? (frank) no never

Gretzky played over 1,400 NHL games and scored 894 goals. You watched a short highlight film. As great of a player as Crosby is. He doesn't compare to Gretzky or Lemieux.
894 empty net goals with the Goalie on his ass!
- MJL

Obviously not, but a lot of those goals were 1 on 0s or with the goalie out of position. Either way, while I still disagree with you, it's obvious this argument isn't going anywhere, and I feel like I'm repeating the same points, so I'll leave it here.

Obviously not, but a lot of those goals were 1 on 0s or with the goalie out of position. Either way, while I still disagree with you, it's obvious this argument isn't going anywhere, and I feel like I'm repeating the same points, so I'll leave it here.
- JAKEw1234

How exactly does a Goalie get out of position anyway?

His anticipation and ability to read the play was unparalleled. But you're mistaken to suggest that he wasn't a very good skater. He absolutely was.
- MJL

I'm old enough to have watched him play, too. He was average for the time... in today's game, he would be a snail... there are no shortage of star players today who can change direction on a dime like he did AND have the great first step acceleration and top-end speed to match.

Anyway, it's fun to surmise how stars would have performed across eras, but there's no question that the game and the athletes have continued to progress over the years. The league has never been faster and more skilled... and it will keep getting better.

I am enjoying this Wayne G debate a lot. I saw The great Wayne play a few times in my earlier years. I will say he was a flat out beast. If you put Crosby or any other star from this era into his, I think they will find it harder to enter the zone. We all know the "Clutch and Brag" Dmen used. I think it goes either way. I will say the goalies are much better than the ones from the 80's.
- bigmookalookie

Big Mook! What's the word man?

I don't see how there can be a Gretzky debate really. Sure he wasn't a physical specimen, but he was the best player by a wide margin.

If he was playing in today's NHL would he be putting up 200+ points? Of course not. But I believe he would produce more than every other player in the NHL significantly.

Do they even record breakaways and partial breakaways as individual stats? I'm watching a few different long goal compilations of him. The majority of the goals in a few different long compilations have him with no defender between him and the goalie. Even if there is 1 defender, there are still a good number of goals where the goalie is on his ass, or so far out of the crease that Gretzky has essentially been left an empty net to shoot on. Again, I'm not doubting his skill, I just think it's unfair to say no one in today's game (or for the past 20 years, for that matter) has any comparable to him. Crosby's on-ice vision and playmaking ability can very much be compared to Gretzky.
- JAKEw1234

Not to mention also how on alot of those goals like coming down the wing or just crossing the blue line and shooting and the the goalie is falling on his ass as the puck goes in the net. Routine save in today's game even for an ahl goalie.

You clown? (frank) no never
- bigmookalookie