I enjoy Kerry Frazer on TSN in a blog called "Come on Ref." Kerry usually reviews calls made or penalties given, I enjoyed Kerry a lot when he was still an active NHL ref
- bigmookalookie

that's good to hear, having someone that's not an author by trade write a book can go either way, but I got the impression this book is pretty well written and will have tons of good stories

Obviously not, but a lot of those goals were 1 on 0s or with the goalie out of position. Either way, while I still disagree with you, it's obvious this argument isn't going anywhere, and I feel like I'm repeating the same points, so I'll leave it here.
- JAKEw1234

lmao

Big Mook! What's the word man?

I don't see how there can be a Gretzky debate really. Sure he wasn't a physical specimen, but he was the best player by a wide margin.

If he was playing in today's NHL would he be putting up 200+ points? Of course not. But I believe he would produce more than every other player in the NHL significantly.
- PLindbergh31

I agree, by a long shot. If you look, the hits thrown were harder and a lot went to the head and were not considered a penalty. Guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos would be getting crushed. Imagine Crosby running into a guy like Scott Stevens.. Crosby's head would be mush

I am enjoying this Wayne G debate a lot. I saw The great Wayne play a few times in my earlier years. I will say he was a flat out beast. If you put Crosby or any other star from this era into his, I think they will find it harder to enter the zone. We all know the "Clutch and Brag" Dmen used. I think it goes either way. I will say the goalies are much better than the ones from the 80's.
- bigmookalookie

I think that some of the best goalies of the time might've been more athletic and made more of those amazing saves than a lot of goalies now, but the lack of so many other things like bigger pads, modern positioning and technical skills, other modern helmets (vision issue), etc still factually resulted in a lot more goals being scored then than now.

I'm old enough to have watched him play, too. He was average for the time... in today's game, he would be a snail... there are no shortage of star players today who can change direction on a dime like he did AND have the great first step acceleration and top-end speed to match.

Anyway, it's fun to surmise how stars would have performed across eras, but there's no question that the game and the athletes have continued to progress over the years. The league has never been faster and more skilled... and it will keep getting better.
- Tomahawk

Many thought that there was an unwritten rule in his era, that he wasn't allowed to be hit. But believe me, they tried. But they couldn't catch him. Due to his quality skating, and unbelievable anticipation and hockey sense. I didn't state that Gretzky would be considered a great skater compared to today's players. I said stating that he was a poor skater was inaccurate. If you watched him play, especially live. You'd know how good of a skater he was.

I think that some of the best goalies of the time might've been more athletic and made more of those amazing saves than a lot of goalies now, but the lack of so many other things like bigger pads, modern positioning and technical skills, other modern helmets (vision issue), etc still factually resulted in a lot more goals being scored then than now.
- JAKEw1234

I agree with that. God I miss the days of Roy and Co.... (frank)ing Brodeur is still (frank)ing playing... hell I even saw Hasek while he was in his prime, that (frank)er...

I am enjoying this Wayne G debate a lot. I saw The great Wayne play a few times in my earlier years. I will say he was a flat out beast. If you put Crosby or any other star from this era into his, I think they will find it harder to enter the zone. We all know the "Clutch and Brag" Dmen used. I think it goes either way. I will say the goalies are much better than the ones from the 80's.
- bigmookalookie

Do you have demetia? There was no clutch and grab in the 80s.

In considering players from different eras, and mentioning today's players being bigger, faster & more skilled, you'd have to assume that guys from past eras would be embracing the work out routines, doing the dietary stuff, doing more video work, etc, as well.

Guy like Gretzky broke in when a lot of NHLers used training camp to get into shape, rather than reporting in good condition as they do now.

Players today are also more open to skating instruction and other routes to hon their games, and we'd have to assume that if Gretzky or Lemieux played today, they would be working on their flaws and not being a pack a day smoker(as Lemieux was for several of his early NHL seasons)

The City of Detroit is bankrupt. Guess the Wings will be moving to Sheboygan.

In considering players from different eras, and mentioning today's players being bigger, faster & more skilled, you'd have to assume that guys from past eras would be embracing the work out routines, doing the dietary stuff, doing more video work, etc, as well.

Guy like Gretzky broke in when a lot of NHLers used training camp to get into shape, rather than reporting in good condition as they do now.

Players today are also more open to skating instruction and other routes to hon their games, and we'd have to assume that if Gretzky or Lemieux played today, they would be working on their flaws and not being a pack a day smoker(as Lemieux was for several of his early NHL seasons)
- Jsaquella

Great points. One poster said that today's players are better due to watching video. Gretzky wouldn't have watched it if he played in today's game? He wouldn't have taken advantage of the technology of today? But to state that any player today is more aware of on ice situations today due to film study, then Gretzky was on the ice, is baffling. Gretzky was known for a sixth sense and eyes in the back of his head. More then any player in the history of the game.

The City of Detroit is bankrupt. Guess the Wings will be moving to Sheboygan.
- PLindbergh31

I heard that. That's crazy.

I heard that. That's crazy.
- MJL

Auto industry is in the poopter. That cripples Detroit.

In considering players from different eras, and mentioning today's players being bigger, faster & more skilled, you'd have to assume that guys from past eras would be embracing the work out routines, doing the dietary stuff, doing more video work, etc, as well.

Guy like Gretzky broke in when a lot of NHLers used training camp to get into shape, rather than reporting in good condition as they do now.

Players today are also more open to skating instruction and other routes to hon their games, and we'd have to assume that if Gretzky or Lemieux played today, they would be working on their flaws and not being a pack a day smoker(as Lemieux was for several of his early NHL seasons)
- Jsaquella

Lemieux would still be a 120+ point guy in today's game while smoking that pack a day and doing nothing but golfing all summer long.

Speed, hands, size, strength, drive, vision... that guy had it all... his game would translate in any era... it's really unfortunate that his prime coincided with the height of clutch-grab/trapping.

How exactly does a Goalie get out of position anyway?
- MJL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W68bPm3oZS8
Watch #10 there for one example, the first Orr goal. It's the number 10 goal OF ALL TIME according to TSN, and all Orr did was carry it down around the net and put it into an empty net.

Great points. One poster said that today's players are better due to watching video. Gretzky wouldn't have watched it if he played in today's game? He wouldn't have taken advantage of the technology of today?
- MJL

We were assuming we'd pluck them out of their time and toss them on the ice w/ today's players, or vice versa.

Now, if Gretzky was a '94 bday and drafted in 2013, I'm sure he would have been a much better physical specimen along with enjoying all the other advantages that today's players have.

Here you go Plindy, im the big guy on the left..

Lemieux would still be a 120+ point guy in today's game while smoking that pack a day and doing nothing but golfing all summer long.

Speed, hands, size, strength, drive, vision... that guy had it all... his game would translate in any era... it's really unfortunate that his prime coincided with the height of clutch-grab/trapping.
- Tomahawk

And the injuries. Including Cancer.

The City of Detroit is bankrupt. Guess the Wings will be moving to Sheboygan.
- PLindbergh31

I actually read the Auto industry was doing well, Det just sucks

The City of Detroit is bankrupt. Guess the Wings will be moving to Sheboygan.
- PLindbergh31

Does that actually mean anything for the Wings?

Lemieux would still be a 120+ point guy in today's game while smoking that pack a day and doing nothing but golfing all summer long.

Speed, hands, size, strength, drive, vision... that guy had it all... his game would translate in any era... it's really unfortunate that his prime coincided with the height of clutch-grab/trapping.
- Tomahawk

Getting Hodgkins at age 28 didn't help either.

Here you go Plindy, im the big guy on the left..
- bigmookalookie

Wow, for a big guy, you type like a small person.

Does that actually mean anything for the Wings?
- JAKEw1234

Probably not. Perhaps less attendance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W68bPm3oZS8
Watch #10 there for one example, the first Orr goal. It's the number 10 goal OF ALL TIME according to TSN, and all Orr did was carry it down around the net and put it into an empty net.
- JAKEw1234

All Orr did is skate through the entire team, beat the defenseman wide, and fake the Goalie out of his gord. Now there's no doubt that they Goalie played it badly. But you act like it was an empty net goal.

Here you go Plindy, im the big guy on the left..
- bigmookalookie

We were assuming we'd pluck them out of their time and toss them on the ice w/ today's players, or vice versa.

Now, if Gretzky was a '94 bday and drafted in 2013, I'm sure he would have been a much better physical specimen along with enjoying all the other advantages that today's players have.
- Tomahawk

So why compare players and mention advantages that players back then didn't have? Simply compare the player.