Getting Hodgkins at age 28 didn't help either.
- PLindbergh31

Yes, but just speaking to the timing of his career... would have loved to see what he could have done in his prime either today, or back in the early 80's when Gretzky was doing his thing.

Wow, for a big guy, you type like a small person.
- feelingkettle

hell yeah

Yes, but just speaking to the timing of his career... would have loved to see what he could have done in his prime either today, or back in the early 80's when Gretzky was doing his thing.
- Tomahawk

I think he would've been right there. Lemieux had one thing that Gretzky didn't have. Size and physical strength.

I agree with that. God I miss the days of Roy and Co.... (frank)ing Brodeur is still (frank)ing playing... hell I even saw Hasek while he was in his prime, that (frank)er...
- bigmookalookie

Beings that I live in buffalo suburbs I'd watch sabres just to watch hasek. Went to many games. That guy was out of this world. I'd put him in the elite discussion as well. If he had any team in buffalo we'd be talking multiple cups. Best goalie ever in my opinion. He left me speechless and jaw hanging almost every damn game. Definitely a treat to say I saw him so much. On a lighter noTe I saw him once at a grocery store at like 1 in the morning grocery shopping with his wife, and she was female doging at him in czech. He just turned, looked at me, shrugged his shoulders and smILed. I burst out laughing and his wife saw it and turned her cart around and stormed off. We both turned, looked at her, turned to each other and burst out laughing even louder as she was still female doging in czech as she turned the corner to another aisle.

Beings that I live in buffalo suburbs I'd watch sabres just to watch hasek. Went to many games. That guy was out of this world. I'd put him in the elite discussion as well. If he had any team in buffalo we'd be talking multiple cups. Best goalie ever in my opinion. He left me speechless and jaw hanging almost every damn game. Definitely a treat to say I saw him so much. On a lighter noTe I saw him once at a grocery store at like 1 in the morning grocery shopping with his wife, and she was female doging at him in czech. He just turned, looked at me, shrugged his shoulders and smILed. I burst out laughing and his wife saw it and turned her cart around and stormed off. We both turned, looked at her, turned to each other and burst out laughing even louder as she was still female doging in czech as she turned the corner to another aisle.
- SMS4016

that's legit

So why compare players and mention advantages that players back then didn't have? Simply compare the player.
- MJL

I believe that part of the discussion was rooted in your assertion that 99 was much more naturally skilled than 87 or any of today's stars by a long shot, which I don't think is true.

In considering players from different eras, and mentioning today's players being bigger, faster & more skilled, you'd have to assume that guys from past eras would be embracing the work out routines, doing the dietary stuff, doing more video work, etc, as well.

Guy like Gretzky broke in when a lot of NHLers used training camp to get into shape, rather than reporting in good condition as they do now.

Players today are also more open to skating instruction and other routes to hon their games, and we'd have to assume that if Gretzky or Lemieux played today, they would be working on their flaws and not being a pack a day smoker(as Lemieux was for several of his early NHL seasons)
- Jsaquella

That's a good point too.

We were assuming we'd pluck them out of their time and toss them on the ice w/ today's players, or vice versa.

Now, if Gretzky was a '94 bday and drafted in 2013, I'm sure he would have been a much better physical specimen along with enjoying all the other advantages that today's players have.
- Tomahawk

Well look at what McDavid does now, as an example of his physical prowess he'll have over other prospects. He's 16 now, and per USA Today, "Typically, the 5-11, 175-pound McDavid works out for six hours daily beginning at 9:30 a.m. at Erie Insurance Arena. When not at the rink, or traveling, the teenager takes online high school courses so he can graduate on time in Canada." He doesn't even go to school. He's just hockey, all day, and all night. Nothing but hockey and working out in order to be better at hockey. His size is close to NHL ready now, and he's still 2 years away from the draft.

Yes, but just speaking to the timing of his career... would have loved to see what he could have done in his prime either today, or back in the early 80's when Gretzky was doing his thing.
- Tomahawk

168 then 199 points right in his prime and awesome in 87 Canada Cup once Gretzky kicked his ass.

Yes, but just speaking to the timing of his career... would have loved to see what he could have done in his prime either today, or back in the early 80's when Gretzky was doing his thing.
- Tomahawk

I hear you. Lemieux was amazing. Size, skill, he had it all. 199 points in 88-89, Gretzky put up 168 that year and was still in his prime at 27 years old.

I think if Lemieux stayed healthy, and his career spanned the same years Gretzky's did, their stats would be similar. Still would give Gretzky the nod, because he was surrounded by so much talent.

All Orr did is skate through the entire team, beat the defenseman wide, and fake the Goalie out of his gord. Now there's no doubt that they Goalie played it badly. But you act like it was an empty net goal.
- MJL

Well yes, it was a hero run, but it was a hero run that wouldn't have scored today. Goalies don't do, whatever that atrocious goaltending would be called, today. Any goalie that does that is getting pulled. Any goalie that does that consistently is getting traded or bought out.

I believe that part of the discussion was rooted in your assertion that 99 was much more naturally skilled than 87 or any of today's stars by a long shot, which I don't think is true.
- Tomahawk

I think it's beyond question. And if we're discussing natural skill, what does film study have to do with that?

Well yes, it was a hero run, but it was a hero run that wouldn't have scored today. Goalies don't do, whatever that atrocious goaltending would be called, today. Any goalie that does that is getting pulled. Any goalie that does that consistently is getting traded or bought out.
- JAKEw1234

Goalies don't get faked out of position, or overplay the puck in today's game?

I hear you. Lemieux was amazing. Size, skill, he had it all. 199 points in 88-89, Gretzky put up 168 that year and was still in his prime at 27 years old.

I think if Lemieux stayed healthy, and his career spanned the same years Gretzky's did, their stats would be similar. Still would give Gretzky the nod, because he was surrounded by so much talent.
- PLindbergh31

I agree, Ahhh I might wanna get a game from the Greztkey and Lemuieux days. Hell I even love the good ole Det and Col. series. Watching those two teams at it was amazing, they hated each other so much. Osgood was def a playoff goalie. He was ok during regular season, once the playoffs hit Osgood was on another level.

Goalies don't get faked out of position, or overplay the puck in today's game?
- MJL

Besides Bryz? No way

Ok.... Next debate....

Rank these 3 goalies. Brodeur, Roy, Hasek

Besides Bryz? No way
- bigmookalookie

Can you believe 2 years after the Flyers gave him that contract, he's basically become a pariah. Unreal.

I don't think NHL teams want anything to do with the guy.

Goalies don't get faked out of position, or overplay the puck in today's game?
- MJL

Not like it happened there, no. That was just horrid.

I hear you. Lemieux was amazing. Size, skill, he had it all. 199 points in 88-89, Gretzky put up 168 that year and was still in his prime at 27 years old.

I think if Lemieux stayed healthy, and his career spanned the same years Gretzky's did, their stats would be similar. Still would give Gretzky the nod, because he was surrounded by so much talent.
- PLindbergh31

got robbed of an MVP

Not like it happened there, no. That was just horrid.
- JAKEw1234

No, never?

Ok.... Next debate....

Rank these 3 goalies. Brodeur, Roy, Hasek
- PLindbergh31

That's next to impossible for me. I don't think you can go wrong with any order.

No, never?

- MJL

Haha ok maybe sometimes but Orr was at the side of the net and the goalie flew out, landed on his ass and waited for Orr to just skate around the net and put it in. I don't think Orr even made a move, in fact it's possible the goalie slipped and just didn't get up. Either way, any goalie that does something as terrible as that today gets pulled. Yet it's still a top 10 goal of all time? I don't think so. Awesome hero run with a lucky empty-net finish is more like it.

That's next to impossible for me. I don't think you can go wrong with any order.
- MJL

2001 SCF, Roy near end of his career, Brodeur in his prime, Roy outplayed Brodeur.

That's big.

Ok.... Next debate....

Rank these 3 goalies. Brodeur, Roy, Hasek
- PLindbergh31

1 hasek 2 brodeur 3 Roy

Ok.... Next debate....

Rank these 3 goalies. Brodeur, Roy, Hasek
- PLindbergh31

Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur