I still would much prefer to give his roster spot to a guy who can retain possession of the puck or at least be a gem defensively, but I understand the economics of the game don't allow for that always.

The low Corsi + high # of hits = a very poor player for generating offense. But at least he's improving and cost-effective.
- bradleyc4

I don't think it's neccessary for a 4th line player to generate offense. First of all, he's just not on the ice long enough to generate offense. What you need from a 4th line is to play physical, play well defensively, and provide energy and a spark. If your 4th line comes out even, and plays physical, then they've done their job. This is another situation where Advanced stats misses the boat, and doesn't fit in looking at certain type of players.

I think his intangibles make him an important player for this team.
- jak521

Ah yes, the mythical "intangibles".

What's more effective? His hits that sometimes cross the line that ignites the other team to target our star players for retribution, or his Twitter presence?

Ah yes, the mythical "intangibles".

What's more effective? His hits that sometimes cross the line that ignites the other team to target our star players for retribution, or his Twitter presence?
- bradleyc4

His hits are far more beneficial to the Flyers then they are to the opposition. Don't really see what Twitter has to do with it. And intangibles certainly aren't mythical.

I really think if Rinaldo ever wants to be trusted with PK time. Then he drastically needs to improve his play away from the puck in his ES icetime on the 4th line. If he shows a quality defensive game there, maybe he will be given the chance. Part of the problem is the type of play that makes him effective at ES play, would make him ineffective on the PK.
- MJL

They could also give him a look in the preseason if he's playing in a game where the "regulars" (Giroux, Hall, Talbot) don't dress.

I don't think it's neccessary for a 4th line player to generate offense. First of all, he's just not on the ice long enough to generate offense. What you need from a 4th line is to play physical, play well defensively, and provide energy and a spark. If your 4th line comes out even, and plays physical, then they've done their job. This is another situation where Advanced stats misses the boat, and doesn't fit in looking at certain type of players.
- MJL

If your opponent is drastically out-shooting your team when you're on the ice, you're not doing your job. It's luck if they come out even.

His hits are far more beneficial to the Flyers then they are to the opposition. Don't really see what Twitter has to do with it. And intangibles certainly aren't mythical.
- MJL

All hitting means is that the other team has the puck and you don't. That's not a positive thing.

All hitting means is that the other team has the puck and you don't. That's not a positive thing.
- bradleyc4

So, hitting is a bad thing?

So, hitting is bad?
- jmatchett383

Basically, yes. There's a time and place for it, but being among the league leaders in hits is not a good thing.

If your opponent is drastically out-shooting your team when you're on the ice, you're not doing your job. It's luck if they come out even.
- bradleyc4

Not discussing the team as a whole in that post. I'm discussing Rinaldo in that post. Using Corsi to look at a player like Rinaldo's effectiveness, is non-sensical. It's not what he's there for. He's genrally not playing in offensive situations, or with other players who generate offense and shots on net. It's another situation where advanced stats are misused.

Basically, yes. There's a time and place for it, but being among the league leaders in hits is not a good thing.
- bradleyc4

The 2 most famous shifts in Flyers' history (Richards in 2010 ECG Game 5 and Giroux 2012 Game 6) both began with hits. But what you're saying is that it's bad that the both had to throw hits?

Basically, yes. There's a time and place for it, but being among the league leaders in hits is not a good thing.
- bradleyc4

I'd really be interested in hearing about this in detail.

Not discussing the team as a whole in that post. I'm discussing Rinaldo in that post. Using Corsi to look at a player like Rinaldo's effectiveness, is non-sensical. It's not what he's there for. He's genrally not playing in offensive situations, or with other players who generate offense and shots on net. It's another situation where advanced stats are misused.
- MJL

No, it's another place where you're not understanding the stat or its context.

All hitting means is that the other team has the puck and you don't. That's not a positive thing.
- bradleyc4

Flawed thinking there. When the other team has the puck, hitting is one way to get it back. I see a fog here created by the overuse of Advanced stats.

The 2 most famous shifts in Flyers' history (Richards in 2010 ECG Game 5 and Giroux 2012 Game 6) both began with hits. But what you're saying is that it's bad that the both had to throw hits?
- jmatchett383

There's a time and place for them, like I mentioned in my previous comment to you. I'm saying that if "hits" is one of your best traits, you're not a very good NHL player.

Ah yes, the mythical "intangibles".

What's more effective? His hits that sometimes cross the line that ignites the other team to target our star players for retribution, or his Twitter presence?
- bradleyc4

The first process in understanding the "mythical" intangibles is checking your bias at the door.

I understand your analytics haven't been developed in a way to accurately grade things like "momentum swings" or the affect that a player has against opposing teams by "getting them off their games".

How often have other teams targeted Giroux as a result of a Rinaldo hit? Thats a pretty interesting claim.

No, it's another place where you're not understanding the stat or its context.
- bradleyc4

I understand it completely. It's the flaw of the stat that is the issue. And how some see it as the "Holy Grail" of the sport. And can't see the forest through the trees.

Flawed thinking there. When the other team has the puck, hitting is one way to get it back. I see a fog here created by the overuse of Advanced stats.
- MJL

It's not working for Rinaldo.

There's a time and place for them, like I mentioned in my previous comment to you. I'm saying that if "hits" is one of your best traits, you're not a very good NHL player.
- bradleyc4

One of Eric Lindros' best traits (possibly his biggest) was his amount and impact of hits. Guess he wasn't a very good NHL player.

I understand it completely. It's the flaw of the stat that is the issue. And how some see it as the "Holy Grail" of the sport. And can't see the forest through the trees.
- MJL

And your flaw is that you think anyone who quotes an "advanced stat" (which is a misnomer), that it's the only angle they're looking at.

It's not working for Rinaldo.
- bradleyc4

Actually, it is. He's hated by the rest of the league, and he's drawing more power plays than he takes. I like that.

One of Eric Lindros' best traits (possibly his biggest) was his amount and impact of hits. Guess he wasn't a very good NHL player.
- jmatchett383

Good call.

Actually, it is. He's hated by the rest of the league, and he's drawing more power plays than he takes. I like that.
- jmatchett383

Well enjoy your HITS ! They're AWESOME !

There's a time and place for them, like I mentioned in my previous comment to you. I'm saying that if "hits" is one of your best traits, you're not a very good NHL player.
- bradleyc4

Not true at all. Another myth created by Advanced stats. Some players are role players. And have a certain skill set that makes them effective. If what you're saying is true, then players like Rinaldo would have no place in the NHL. When clearly they do. Just shut off the TV and just look at the advanced stats. Don't even watch the game and see what happens. That's part of the culture that advanced stats has created.

The first process in understanding the "mythical" intangibles is checking your bias at the door.

I understand your analytics haven't been developed in a way to accurately grade things like "momentum swings" or the affect that a player has against opposing teams by "getting them off their games".

How often have other teams targeted Giroux as a result of a Rinaldo hit? Thats a pretty interesting claim.
- jak521

Doesn't matter anyway, since we've got a Jake Voracek in our lineup.

Well enjoy your HITS ! They're AWESOME !
- bradleyc4

Yes. That's what we're saying.