Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rinaldo, Simmonds, Quick Hits

** First**

I like Rinaldo. I think he is a little spark-plug for this team. I would like to see him develop a little more. If he works on his defensive game, I think he could turn himself into more then just a 4th line "yapper". I think top end he could expect is Keith Jones or Max Talbot type of guy. I hope we can see how far he can take his game instead of just using him as a 4th line trouble maker, then shipping him off in a trade.

I like Rinaldo.
- youarewrong

me 2

** First**

I like Rinaldo. I think he is a little spark-plug for this team. I would like to see him develop a little more. If he works on his defensive game, I think he could turn himself into more then just a 4th line "yapper". I think top end he could expect is Keith Jones or Max Talbot type of guy. I hope we can see how far he can take his game instead of just using him as a 4th line trouble maker, then shipping him off in a trade.
- youarewrong

I'm a big fan. He's like Carcillo with a little less skill and a lot less stupid. Seems to be a pretty unselfish player, has some good speed, and gives it all every night.

I'm a big fan. He's like Carcillo with a little less skill and a lot less stupid. Seems to be a pretty unselfish player, has some good speed, and gives it all every night.
- jmatchett383

I really like his competitive drive. Even if his potential isn't sky high, his focus on the game and desire to improve and be seen as something more is hard to not like imo.

I know I have probably said this before but...

I talked to McCrimmon when he was a coach with Atlanta, and as always I introduce myself as a Flyers fan, and voiced my displeasure with his trading out of Philly, though was happy he won the Cup with Calgary. He said if he was never traded and they did minor tinkering with that 87 team, the Flyers would have won the Cup no doubt.

I also read an article a while back where Clarke even admits that was he worst trade, and he knew better than to trade McCrimmon but he still did it.

I really like his competitive drive. Even if his potential isn't sky high, his focus on the game and desire to improve and be seen as something more is hard to not like imo.
- BulliesPhan87

The one guy I would love to see him turn into is Lappy. They share similar qualities in the character department: Huge hearts, fearless, constantly aiming to prove their worth, etc. If he can develop a better defensive game (and I really think he will) I will be stoked.

He also has the added benefit of being able to work with Lappy if so desired.

I said it at the end of last season... he was the most improved player in my books. Absolutely the type of guy you want on your team.

The one guy I would love to see him turn into is Lappy. They share similar qualities in the character department: Huge hearts, fearless, constantly aiming to prove their worth, etc. If he can develop a better defensive game (and I really think he will) I will be stoked.

He also has the added benefit of being able to work with Lappy if so desired.

I said it at the end of last season... he was the most improved player in my books. Absolutely the type of guy you want on your team.
- jak521

I agree with all these things.

I'm a big fan. He's like Carcillo with a little less skill and a lot less stupid. Seems to be a pretty unselfish player, has some good speed, and gives it all every night.
- jmatchett383

I dont like that comparison to be honest. They are both smaller players who fight and are scrappy.. thats about where it ends though for me.

Carcillo never wanted to change his ways. He is way too bullheaded. He has more natural talent than Rinaldo, is a bit bigger, but will never use that to create a bigger role for himself. He could never control himself, is constantly flailing around. Carcillo is a lot like Matt Barnaby to me...

Rinaldo is the opposite. He wants very much to be known for his hockey game. He hates being labeled as just a fighter..."It sucks, it really sucks (when people view you as only a fighter), every one busts my balls all the time," Rinaldo said. "Put me on the first or second line for a couple games you'll see a different player."

Putting aside his hitting, fighting, and trash talking, cause we all know he is good at that;

What I like about Rinaldo, and what I think can make him a better player is his speed. I think it will take years to develop, but as he gets older I can see him being a checking line player, that can cause a ruckus on the ice, and when you think he is just a checking line fighter, then he pops in a goal. I think in 4-5 years we will have a 2nd pairing Pker, that can pop 15 goals, and you put your young kids on his line because he is going to show them how to work hard, sacrafice for the team, and will protect them.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rinaldo, Simmonds, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

LOL you had to remind me about the McCrimmon trade! I was so frustrated that if they were going to move a good player like the Beast, at least they could have gotten a good player back. All in all it was one of the worst deals Clarke ever made.

Good reading as always, Bill! I've noticed that you've started using 'advanced stats' in your analysis of players, something you didn't do much previously if I recall correctly. Just curious, why have you started using them now?

Putting aside his hitting, fighting, and trash talking, cause we all know he is good at that;

What I like about Rinaldo, and what I think can make him a better player is his speed. I think it will take years to develop, but as he gets older I can see him being a checking line player, that can cause a ruckus on the ice, and when you think he is just a checking line fighter, then he pops in a goal. I think in 4-5 years we will have a 2nd pairing Pker, that can pop 15 goals, and you put your young kids on his line because he is going to show them how to work hard, sacrafice for the team, and will protect them.
- youarewrong

Not that I have any idea (primarily because I haven't figured out how to see the future yet).. but I really dont think he will ever be a 15 goal guy.. I could see him hit 10 maybe once or twice over his career, but a 15 goal guy... I really dont see it.

I think we will see him top out as a 7-10 goal, 10-15 assists guy who does the other things you said.

But I hope youareright and iamwrong

* Today in Flyers' History: On this date in 1987, the Flyers made one of the most ill-fated trades in franchise history. Allowing a personal grudge and a $25,000 financial dispute to cloud his better judgement, Flyers general manager Bob Clarke traded top-pairing defenseman Brad McCrimmon to the Calgary Flames in exchange for a 1989 first-round pick (later traded to Toronto along with an additional first-rounder for goaltender Ken Wregget) and a 1988 third-round pick (with which the Flyers selected goalie Dominic Roussel). The McCrimmon trade left a big hole in the Flyers' blueline and was a contributing factor in the team's steady demise after the 1986-87 season.
- bmeltzer

*sigh*

I know I have probably said this before but...

I talked to McCrimmon when he was a coach with Atlanta, and as always I introduce myself as a Flyers fan, and voiced my displeasure with his trading out of Philly, though was happy he won the Cup with Calgary. He said if he was never traded and they did minor tinkering with that 87 team, the Flyers would have won the Cup no doubt.

I also read an article a while back where Clarke even admits that was he worst trade, and he knew better than to trade McCrimmon but he still did it.
- Pyzik

I got to talk to Brad's sister a few years back at my last job. We had a similar conversation. She echoed his sentiments that you posted. I told her it was the worst trade ever.

RIP Beast... Coming up on 2 years since his passing.

I think Rinaldo could develop into a solid 3rd line winger who can chip in 10 goals and 20+ points per year, while helping out on the pk. My only concern is that the combo of his style of play coupled with his slight frame will lead to a lot of injuries as his career goes on. I think at some point, he will need to learn to pick his spots more carefully for throwing the big hit.

*sigh*






I got to talk to Brad's sister a few years back at my last job. We had a similar conversation. She echoed his sentiments that you posted. I told her it was the worst trade ever.

RIP Beast... Coming up on 2 years since his passing.
- Flyskippy

Hey.... At least Clarke atoned for the mistake he made with the McCrimmon trade, by robbing the Blackhawks blind with the Sharp deal.

Hey.... At least Clarke atoned for the mistake he made with the McCrimmon trade, by robbing the Blackhawks blind with the Sharp deal.
- PLindbergh31

Totally different deals. The sharp one was a bad deal in hindsight (Sharp would never have gotten a chance here), while the Beast deal was a horrendous one based on personality/ego clashes.

Huge Rinaldo fan. I personally believe he's the best agitator in the division (maybe even the conference). And he's extremely important to the success of the club. I argue all the time with opposing fans who believe, simply bc they despise him, that he brings NOTHING worthwhile to the club. And that he's actually more trouble than he's worth. But those are just sour grapes. In his two seasons there have been several occasions where the Flyers came out flat only to be inspired by a Rinaldo hit or fight. I'll admit I couldn't stand him during his rookie season- too reckless with no direction, like Carcillo. But this past season he proved his value. And now I couldn't imagine the team without him. He's the energy guy. And he's got more skill than most think. I really hope he gets a chance on the PK bc he's fearless.

To me his ceiling is as an 8-12 goal guy, PK specialist, who also intimidates opponents into playing worried. Players don't wanna come across the blueline with their heads down when Rinaldo is on the ice. And I think Lavy is finally recognizing his contributions. I believe the Flyers have a successful season with Rinaldo as the sparkplug.

Totally different deals. The sharp one was a bad deal in hindsight (Sharp would never have gotten a chance here), while the Beast deal was a horrendous one based on personality/ego clashes.
- jmatchett383

The only way to judge a trade is through hindsight. You have to see what players accomplish after they are traded in order to put it into perspective.

The trades may have been different in why they were made, but the end result of each trade were unmitigated disasters.

I dont like that comparison to be honest. They are both smaller players who fight and are scrappy.. thats about where it ends though for me.

Carcillo never wanted to change his ways. He is way too bullheaded. He has more natural talent than Rinaldo, is a bit bigger, but will never use that to create a bigger role for himself. He could never control himself, is constantly flailing around. Carcillo is a lot like Matt Barnaby to me...

Rinaldo is the opposite. He wants very much to be known for his hockey game. He hates being labeled as just a fighter..."It sucks, it really sucks (when people view you as only a fighter), every one busts my balls all the time," Rinaldo said. "Put me on the first or second line for a couple games you'll see a different player."
- jak521

I shouldn't have said he's "like Carcillo", maybe more that they play a similar game. The difference is that Rinaldo isn't a complete self-serving moron and actually wants to improve his game instead of being comfortable with a 4th line agitator/detrimental to the team player.

The only way to judge a trade is through hindsight. You have to see what players accomplish after they are traded in order to put it into perspective.

The trades may have been different in why they were made, but the end result of each trade were unmitigated disasters.
- PLindbergh31

True. I'm just saying that the entire hockey world knew the McCrimmon trade was awful, while the Sharp deal was considered minor and could have gone either way. It's like trading a known good for crap compared to swapping next year's 1st round picks. Someone's gonna get the better end of both deals, but you know from the start who got the better of the first.

** First**

I like Rinaldo. I think he is a little spark-plug for this team. I would like to see him develop a little more. If he works on his defensive game, I think he could turn himself into more then just a 4th line "yapper". I think top end he could expect is Keith Jones or Max Talbot type of guy. I hope we can see how far he can take his game instead of just using him as a 4th line trouble maker, then shipping him off in a trade.
- youarewrong

I doubt Rinaldo finishes with more career points than Jones highest scoring season. I dont think the offence will ever be there but, as Bill's article contends, he can be a productive player as is and can even improve this aspect of his game

I really think if Rinaldo ever wants to be trusted with PK time. Then he drastically needs to improve his play away from the puck in his ES icetime on the 4th line. If he shows a quality defensive game there, maybe he will be given the chance. Part of the problem is the type of play that makes him effective at ES play, would make him ineffective on the PK.

I still would much prefer to give his roster spot to a guy who can retain possession of the puck or at least be a gem defensively, but I understand the economics of the game don't allow for that always.

The low Corsi + high # of hits = a very poor player for generating offense. But at least he's improving and cost-effective.

I still would much prefer to give his roster spot to a guy who can retain possession of the puck or at least be a gem defensively, but I understand the economics of the game don't allow for that always.

The low Corsi + high # of hits = a very poor player for generating offense. But at least he's improving and cost-effective.
- bradleyc4

I think his intangibles make him an important player for this team.

Also, aside from his low relative corsi... He does a hell of a job at finishing his shifts in the offensive zone. That is the first step in generating offense.