I believe he is highly respected. Most people put their opinions and other stuff out there for free. If you want the full range of Vollman's hockey analysis you have to buy it. But he is taken very seriously by many hockey analysts.
- spatso

Never said that. But, you will remember when Burke came into the job he said he would build through the draft. Soon after, he did the Kessel deal with the same team that had previously stolen Rask. It was a very huge issue for people like me that strongly opposed the Kessel trade.

When I say that Burke might still have a job if he had not done the Kessel deal it is because people like me have not (and, will not) forgive him for going back on his word and giving up top picks for immediate short term relief.

Everyone here knows that I take some personal satisfaction in seeing Burke fired. I am not against the man. But, I have difficulty forgiving anyone who lies to me. And, we know Burke told a whopper.
- spatso

Yes you did. You just spent the entire page ripping Burke about how awful a job he did, and asked for example you give rask? Sure thing.

Never said that. But, you will remember when Burke came into the job he said he would build through the draft. Soon after, he did the Kessel deal with the same team that had previously stolen Rask. It was a very huge issue for people like me that strongly opposed the Kessel trade.

When I say that Burke might still have a job if he had not done the Kessel deal it is because people like me have not (and, will not) forgive him for going back on his word and giving up top picks for immediate short term relief.

Everyone here knows that I take some personal satisfaction in seeing Burke fired. I am not against the man. But, I have difficulty forgiving anyone who lies to me. And, we know Burke told a whopper.
- spatso

Wow. Burke as fired for issues outside of hockey and you think that if he didn't make that trade he'd still be employed? You know how stupid that sounds? If he didn't make that kessel deal the leafs are still out of the playoffs and nowhere close to them. As much as people like you try unsuccessfully to degrade kessel and the trade it keeps getting better. Right now the leafs got the better end of the deal whether you care to admit it or not. Some people are just too stubborn and too dug in to get out of their stance they created.

Wow. Burke as fired for issues outside of hockey and you think that if he didn't make that trade he'd still be employed? You know how stupid that sounds? If he didn't make that kessel deal the leafs are still out of the playoffs and nowhere close to them. As much as people like you try unsuccessfully to degrade kessel and the trade it keeps getting better. Right now the leafs got the better end of the deal whether you care to admit it or not. Some people are just too stubborn and too dug in to get out of their stance they created.
- burn

So, why am I at peace with the outcome and you are so apparently upset?

If, as you suggest, Burke was fired because of outside issues, it might still not have happened if there were not so many people like me who were unhappy with his hockey performance starting with the Kessel trade. He was vulnerable because a large and vocal portion of the Leaf fan base believed he been deceptive in his commitment to build through the draft.

So, why am I at peace with the outcome and you are so apparently upset?

If, as you suggest, Burke was fired because of outside issues, it might still not have happened if there were not so many people like me who were unhappy with his hockey performance starting with the Kessel trade. He was vulnerable because a large and vocal portion of the Leaf fan base believed he been deceptive in his commitment to build through the draft.
- spatso

Your at peace with it? What? You just finished saying you can't forgive him.

So, why am I at peace with the outcome and you are so apparently upset?

If, as you suggest, Burke was fired because of outside issues, it might still not have happened if there were not so many people like me who were unhappy with his hockey performance starting with the Kessel trade. He was vulnerable because a large and vocal portion of the Leaf fan base believed he been deceptive in his commitment to build through the draft.
- spatso

This may well be the most delusional thing ever posted here.

Yes you did. You just spent the entire page ripping Burke about how awful a job he did, and asked for example you give rask? Sure thing.
- burn

I think you purposely misread in order to avoid putting matters into perspective.

This thread first started in "Praise of Brian Burke" and it was my intention to offer a positive reflection on his courage in standing up in support of a young athlete.

His dismissal was first raised by others.

Go back and you will see that my issue with the Burke firing is twofold.

First, Burke promised to build through the draft.

Second, he went entirely against that commitment and did the Kessel deal.

So my issue was the fact he promised to break the pattern of the past. My statement,

"Never mind the other trades where the Leafs got fleeced by the Bruins."

Was not about Burke doing the Rask deal. Rather, it was his continuing the practice he promised to stop and then doing it with one of the the teams that was the worst offenders in ripping off the Leafs in previous trade deals.

Your at peace with it? What? You just finished saying you can't forgive him.
- burn

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. I choose not to forgive Burke because of the lasting damage, the missed opportunity and, mostly, the broken promise. My decision not to forgive is my choice. I am entirely at peace and fully accept responsibility for my decision.

I think you purposely misread in order to avoid putting matters into perspective.

This thread first started in "Praise of Brian Burke" and it was my intention to offer a positive reflection on his courage in standing up in support of a young athlete.

His dismissal was first raised by others.

Go back and you will see that my issue with the Burke firing is twofold.

First, Burke promised to build through the draft.

Second, he went entirely against that commitment and did the Kessel deal.

So my issue was the fact he promised to break the pattern of the past. My statement,

"Never mind the other trades where the Leafs got fleeced by the Bruins."

Was not about Burke doing the Rask deal. Rather, it was his continuing the practice he promised to stop and then doing it with one of the the teams that was the worst offenders in ripping off the Leafs in previous trade deals.
- spatso

You're talking in circles.... You don't know what direction you're going in anymore.

You spewed about burkes performance. When asked for examples you gave rask. You don't even know what you're arguing anymore.

You're talking in circles.... You don't know what direction you're going in anymore.

You spewed about burkes performance. When asked for examples you gave rask. You don't even know what you're arguing anymore.
- burn

Look just accept responsibility for the fact you misread the stuff and move on.

this thread became awesome

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. I choose not to forgive Burke because of the lasting damage, the missed opportunity and, mostly, the broken promise. My decision not to forgive is my choice. I am entirely at peace and fully accept responsibility for my decision.
- spatso

You ever get hurt falling off your horse? Pretty high up there!

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. I choose not to forgive Burke because of the lasting damage, the missed opportunity and, mostly, the broken promise. My decision not to forgive is my choice. I am entirely at peace and fully accept responsibility for my decision.
- spatso

Damage?


Way more good than bad.... The bad is hilariously overstated.

Look just accept responsibility for the fact you misread the stuff and move on.
- spatso

Didn't misread anything. You spewed about Burke and gave an example of rask.

You should take your own advice.

You ever get hurt falling off your horse? Pretty high up there!
- burn

Three things are important to this discussion.

First, I was rigorously consistent in my criticism of Burke, it was about his failure to do what he promised. Second, when he was fired I did not gloat nor did I continue to pile on. He was, in my opinion, fired because he failed to do what he first promised to do. Third, he is now well removed from the situation. It is time for everyone to move on.

Those of us who wanted him fired have had our day. We can now be positive about some of the good things that he did during the time he was GM of the Leafs. But, there is no need to refight the battle over his dismissal.

Remember the thread is entitled "In Praise of Brian Burke"

Three things are important to this discussion.

First, I was rigorously consistent in my criticism of Burke, it was about his failure to do what he promised. Second, when he was fired I did not gloat nor did I continue to pile on. He was, in my opinion, fired because he failed to do what he first promised to do. Third, he is now well removed from the situation. It is time for everyone to move on.

Those of us who wanted him fired have had our day. We can now be positive about some of the good things that he did during the time he was GM of the Leafs. But, there is no need to refight the battle over his dismissal.

Remember the thread is entitled "In Praise of Brian Burke"
- spatso

Not much of a leg to stand on.

Didn't misread anything. You spewed about Burke and gave an example of rask.

You should take your own advice.
- burn

I am sorry but you have misread.

Clearly the subject reference was in relation to Burke doing the Kessel deal after promising not to deal 1st round picks. Since it was Burke's first major deal, how else could a previous deal with the Bruins been done by Burke.

It is one thing for you to misinterpret information, but you really need to work hard to willfully distort an obvious meaning.

Not much of a leg to stand on.
- burn

They obviously cut him off at the knees and removed him from having any role with the team. There is nothing he can do in order to redeem himself. His dismissal is absolute. Proof alone for his failure.

I am sorry but you have misread.

Clearly the subject reference was in relation to Burke doing the Kessel deal after promising not to deal 1st round picks. Since it was Burke's first major deal, how else could a previous deal with the Bruins been done by Burke.

It is one thing for you to misinterpret information, but you really need to work hard to willfully distort an obvious meaning.
- spatso

Burke had nothing to do with rask. You bringing up rask (which has zero to do with what has being talked about) is all about you trying to twist this.

No one misinterpreted anything. You talked about how awful Burke was and i asked for an example. You gave rask. The only one willfully distorting anything Is you.

They obviously cut him off at the knees and removed him from having any role with the team. There is nothing he can do in order to redeem himself. His dismissal is absolute. Proof alone for his failure.
- spatso

Had nothing to do with hockey.

Burke had nothing to do with rask. You bringing up rask (which has zero to do with what has being talked about) is all about you trying to twist this.

No one misinterpreted anything. You talked about how awful Burke was and i asked for an example. You gave rask. The only one willfully distorting anything Is you.
- burn

Now you are misreading even your own stuff. You did not ask for a Burke example. You asked for an example of my statement about the Leafs having done bad deals with the Bruins (before Kessel).

I think it is time for you to simply own up to having misread the text and we can move on and discuss the merit of the point you are trying to make.

They obviously cut him off at the knees and removed him from having any role with the team. There is nothing he can do in order to redeem himself. His dismissal is absolute. Proof alone for his failure.
- spatso

We cant say 100% that what Burke did fail. it takes more than 4 years for a team to be gutted and rebuilt. He failed to do what he said he would do yes, build from the draft, and I believe he did take some short cuts that didn't work out as expected. Until we see if this team can accomplish anything with Kessel, Kadri, Rielly and Gardiner we cant say for sure.

Burke did himself in with his mouth.

Now you are misreading even your own stuff. You did not ask for a Burke example. You asked for an example of my statement about the Leafs having done bad deals with the Bruins (before Kessel).

I think it is time for you to simply own up to having misread the text and we can move on and discuss the merit of the point you are trying to make.
- spatso

Misread nothing. You beaked off about Burke for the whole page, complained about how awful he was and i asked you to name one you gave rask.


I have no doubt that you are deliberately doing this. It's what trolls do.

We cant say 100% that what Burke did fail. it takes more than 4 years for a team to be gutted and rebuilt. He failed to do what he said he would do yes, build from the draft, and I believe he did take some short cuts that didn't work out as expected. Until we see if this team can accomplish anything with Kessel, Kadri, Rielly and Gardiner we cant say for sure.

Burke did himself in with his mouth.
- senstroll

I agree.

Misread nothing. You beaked off about Burke for the whole page, complained about how awful he was and i asked you to name one you gave rask.


I have no doubt that you are deliberately doing this. It's what trolls do.
- burn

Must be a slow day. Go back and check. You asked about my statement. I answered exactly in the context of what I intended by the specific statement. Now it appears you are suggesting that you better understand my intentionality than I do.

This thread was not intended as a negative inventory of Brian Burke's stewardship of the Leafs. That page has been turned. A new broom has taken over. Does it really serve any useful purpose trying to rewrite the decisions made last year?

I can understand your being upset with me because, essentially my interpretation and projections on the Burke era turned out to be accurate. Is that what you are really upset about?