I have been a very critical voice of Brian Burke and specifically some of his hockey decisions. But, also need to recognize that he is a person of courage and conviction.

This is an incredibly positive story that everyone involved with hockey should feel real good about.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/sla...d-my-life-gay-hockey-fan/

2 firsts and a 2nd

2 firsts and a 2nd
- senstroll

Are we still supposed to think that's the worst trade ever?

And Burke did a great job rebuilding the Leafs without tanking.

Are we still supposed to think that's the worst trade ever?

And Burke did a great job rebuilding the Leafs without tanking.
- RogerRoeper

Are we supposed to think it is even relevant to this thread?

2 firsts and a 2nd
- senstroll

Nobody has been more critical of the deal than I have.

But, when a guy stands up and does something for a kid who was really hurting you can take a moment and say "Brian you made hockey proud for what you did."

Nobody has been more critical of the deal than I have.

But, when a guy stands up and does something for a kid who was really hurting you can take a moment and say "Brian you made hockey proud for what you did."
- spatso

Even you must admit the trade looks better than ever for the Leafs.

Even you must admit the trade looks better than ever for the Leafs.
- RogerRoeper

No! Absolutely not! You still misunderstand my fundamental objection.

I have never been critical of the player, I like Kessel, he is a very good player.

Teams need to rebuild through the draft. Had the Leafs been more patient they would have drafted Seguin and Hamilton (or another player of their choice at that place). In addition, had they could have done a few deals to acquire more draft options they could have added a few more picks. I think they should have had a chance at another top pick.

So, after a decade of poor performances they make it into the playoffs. But, not sure there is a chance for this team to compete at the elite level. It boggles my mind how they now have a cap problem, but still are missing the elite pieces that would make them an elite contender.

No! Absolutely not! You still misunderstand my fundamental objection.

I have never been critical of the player, I like Kessel, he is a very good player.

Teams need to rebuild through the draft. Had the Leafs been more patient they would have drafted Seguin and Hamilton (or another player of their choice at that place). In addition, had they could have done a few deals to acquire more draft options they could have added a few more picks. I think they should have had a chance at another top pick.

So, after a decade of poor performances they make it into the playoffs. But, not sure there is a chance for this team to compete at the elite level. It boggles my mind how they now have a cap problem, but still are missing the elite pieces that would make them an elite contender.
- spatso

And what's so good about Seguin and Hamilton? Why do they put the Leafs in a better position?

Burke actually did rebuild through the draft. You've been so blinded by the Kessel trade you haven't seen any of his other moves.

His 2012' draft of getting Rielly and then Finn set the franchise up on the blueline for years. And that's not including 22 year-old Jake Gardiner,who was a first rounder and he got in a fantastic trade with Anaheim.

Burke also drafted 22 year-old Kadri, who had 44 points in 48 games last season.

There are many teams that build through the draft and it doesn't work.

And they have cap issues because it went down by 7 million. They'll be fine next season.

And what's so good about Seguin and Hamilton? Why do they put the Leafs in a better position?

Burke actually did rebuild through the draft. You've been so blinded by the Kessel trade you haven't seen any of his other moves.

His 2012' draft of getting Rielly and then Finn set the franchise up on the blueline for years. And that's not including 22 year-old Jake Gardiner,who was a first rounder and he got in a fantastic trade with Anaheim.

Burke also drafted 22 year-old Kadri, who had 44 points in 48 games last season.

There are many teams that build through the draft and it doesn't work.

And they have cap issues because it went down by 7 million. They'll be fine next season.
- RogerRoeper

Seguin and Hamilton are two elite pieces. Teams that win Stanley Cups are built around 3 or 4 elite players baked into the mix of a #1 center, a power forward, a goal scoring forward, a #1 Dman, a shut down D man and a quality goaltender.

Just as important, you need some kind of age synchronicity so the team comes together at the right time to make a serious run (Chicago, Boston and LA are all great examples of the needed mix.)

The Leafs are still a long way off, they are at the cap and Kessel is sending off vibes that he is going to want a boatload of money or he may not be here next year. Again, I have no problem with Kessel but I believe the Leafs would have a much stronger future with Seguin, Hamilton and a few more top picks.

Seguin and Hamilton are two elite pieces. Teams that win Stanley Cups are built around 3 or 4 elite players baked into the mix of a #1 center, a power forward, a goal scoring forward, a #1 Dman, a shut down D man and a quality goaltender.

Just as important, you need some kind of age synchronicity so the team comes together at the right time to make a serious run (Chicago, Boston and LA are all great examples of the needed mix.)

The Leafs are still a long way off, they are at the cap and Kessel is sending off vibes that he is going to want a boatload of money or he may not be here next year. Again, I have no problem with Kessel but I believe the Leafs would have a much stronger future with Seguin, Hamilton and a few more top picks.
- spatso

No they aren't. They have to prove it first. Rielly was drafted higher than Hamilton and no one is tripping over themselves to name him a future superstar. Seguin has already been moved @ age 21.

This has always been the issue for the Kessel trade. Phil's game got ripped apart even though he was the most established, and everyone that got picked with the picks got traded was branded a superstar without having played a game.

Right now, Kadri is a better, more established centre than Seguin is.

I can't imagine what a bust Seguin would be called if he just had that same season on the Leafs with all his drunken fun in the playoffs. He was so bad in the playoffs.

You can't look beyond the Kessel trade. Burke added Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, JVR, Phaneuf, Gardiner. You don't seem to consider any of those players when judging Burke.

And what vide is Kessel giving exactly? I'm not hearing/seeing anything.

And Kessel deserves a big contract because unlike Seguin and Hamilton, he's an established elite piece.

No they aren't. They have to prove it first. Rielly was drafted higher than Hamilton and no one is tripping over themselves to name him a future superstar. Seguin has already been moved @ age 21.

This has always been the issue for the Kessel trade. Phil's game got ripped apart even though he was the most established, and everyone that got picked with the picks got traded was branded a superstar without having played a game.

Right now, Kadri is a better, more established centre than Seguin is.

I can't imagine what a bust Seguin would be called if he just had that same season on the Leafs with all his drunken fun in the playoffs. He was so bad in the playoffs.

You can't look beyond the Kessel trade. Burke added Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, JVR, Phaneuf, Gardiner. You don't seem to consider any of those players when judging Burke.

And what vide is Kessel giving exactly? I'm not hearing/seeing anything.

And Kessel deserves a big contract because unlike Seguin and Hamilton, he's an established elite piece.
- RogerRoeper

Whoa! Kessel is 25 years old and operating in his peak performance range. He can be a UFA after this season. Seguin is 21, Hamilton is 20.

Whoa! Kessel is 25 years old and operating in his peak performance range. He can be a UFA after this season. Seguin is 21, Hamilton is 20.
- spatso

If they can get their asses kissed and called"Franchise Players" before they play an NHl game, they can get criticized at 20 and 21 years-old.

Kessel was getting ripped-apart by everyone @ 21.

If they can get their asses kissed and called"Franchise Players" before they play an NHl game, they can get criticized at 20 and 21 years-old.

Kessel was getting ripped-apart by everyone @ 21.
- RogerRoeper

I think you take things too personally. It does matter if you call it Seguin/Hamilton or Ericsson/Hamilton the Leafs gave up a ton to get Kessel. Never mind the other trades where the Leafs got fleeced by the Bruins. Reality is a female dog and the Leafs keep getting ripped.

I think you take things too personally. It does matter if you call it Seguin/Hamilton or Ericsson/Hamilton the Leafs gave up a ton to get Kessel. Never mind the other trades where the Leafs got fleeced by the Bruins. Reality is a female dog and the Leafs keep getting ripped.
- spatso

Do you think Burke got fleeced on his deals? Because I think he won the Phaneuf deal in a landslide. The Lupul/Gardiner trade was brilliant. JVR for Schenn was a great deal. He got Franson for literally nothing.

Burke's Kaberle trade wasn't all that bad either.

Do you think Burke got fleeced on his deals? Because I think he won the Phaneuf deal in a landslide. The Lupul/Gardiner trade was brilliant. JVR for Schenn was a great deal. He got Franson for literally nothing.
- RogerRoeper

All of those other deals might look a lot stronger and Burke might still have a job if he had not made the Kessel deal.

You will, of course, remember my prediction of a few years ago that the Senators would rebuild and become an elite team (before the Leafs) and this would cause great frustration, even rage, among the faithful of the Blue and White.

Well my prediction appears to be coming true. Some commentators are predicting the Senators will lead the new Atlantic Division. One respected commentator projected them to win the President's trophy. And, all this change comes for the Senators with the youngest roster in the NHL.

Burke made some good deals. But you need to consider that in the context of what could and should have been. There are some good players on the Leaf roster. But there are no elite talents, except for Kessel. Elite players come through the draft, you need several to make a run at league leadership. The Leafs are still way too far away for an organization that missed the playoffs for most of an entire lost decade. During that time they should have drafted and developed some quality talent.

The best thing about the Kessel deal is that it came to symbolize the hitting of an organizational bottom. Since that deal, the Leafs have started to act more responsibly. But, you still have to wonder why they did not follow other teams (Chicago, Boston, LA, St. Louis, Ottawa) and build an elite team the old fashioned way. They certainly had the opportunity.

I think you take things too personally. It does matter if you call it Seguin/Hamilton or Ericsson/Hamilton the Leafs gave up a ton to get Kessel. Never mind the other trades where the Leafs got fleeced by the Bruins. Reality is a female dog and the Leafs keep getting ripped.
- spatso

Name one.

All of those other deals might look a lot stronger and Burke might still have a job if he had not made the Kessel deal.

You will, of course, remember my prediction of a few years ago that the Senators would rebuild and become an elite team (before the Leafs) and this would cause great frustration, even rage, among the faithful of the Blue and White.

Well my prediction appears to be coming true. Some commentators are predicting the Senators will lead the new Atlantic Division. One respected commentator projected them to win the President's trophy. And, all this change comes for the Senators with the youngest roster in the NHL.

Burke made some good deals. But you need to consider that in the context of what could and should have been. There are some good players on the Leaf roster. But there are no elite talents, except for Kessel. Elite players come through the draft, you need several to make a run at league leadership. The Leafs are still way too far away for an organization that missed the playoffs for most of an entire lost decade. During that time they should have drafted and developed some quality talent.

The best thing about the Kessel deal is that it came to symbolize the hitting of an organizational bottom. Since that deal, the Leafs have started to act more responsibly. But, you still have to wonder why they did not follow other teams (Chicago, Boston, LA, St. Louis, Ottawa) and build an elite team the old fashioned way. They certainly had the opportunity.
- spatso

You have no clue.

All of those other deals might look a lot stronger and Burke might still have a job if he had not made the Kessel deal.

You will, of course, remember my prediction of a few years ago that the Senators would rebuild and become an elite team (before the Leafs) and this would cause great frustration, even rage, among the faithful of the Blue and White.

Well my prediction appears to be coming true. Some commentators are predicting the Senators will lead the new Atlantic Division. One respected commentator projected them to win the President's trophy. And, all this change comes for the Senators with the youngest roster in the NHL.

Burke made some good deals. But you need to consider that in the context of what could and should have been. There are some good players on the Leaf roster. But there are no elite talents, except for Kessel. Elite players come through the draft, you need several to make a run at league leadership. The Leafs are still way too far away for an organization that missed the playoffs for most of an entire lost decade. During that time they should have drafted and developed some quality talent.

The best thing about the Kessel deal is that it came to symbolize the hitting of an organizational bottom. Since that deal, the Leafs have started to act more responsibly. But, you still have to wonder why they did not follow other teams (Chicago, Boston, LA, St. Louis, Ottawa) and build an elite team the old fashioned way. They certainly had the opportunity.
- spatso

Who??

Name one.
- burn

TR

Who??
- burn

According to its inaugural addition, Rob Vollman’s Hockey Abstract projects the Ottawa Senators to have a 32.2-percent chance of winning the President’s Trophy for the upcoming 2013/14 season – the highest projected odds in the NHL.

TR
- spatso

Burke traded him???

According to its inaugural addition, Rob Vollman’s Hockey Abstract projects the Ottawa Senators to have a 32.2-percent chance of winning the President’s Trophy for the upcoming 2013/14 season – the highest projected odds in the NHL.
- spatso

I'm sorry I thought you said respected.

I'm sorry I thought you said respected.
- burn

I believe he is highly respected. Most people put their opinions and other stuff out there for free. If you want the full range of Vollman's hockey analysis you have to buy it. But he is taken very seriously by many hockey analysts.

Burke traded him???
- burn

Never said that. But, you will remember when Burke came into the job he said he would build through the draft. Soon after, he did the Kessel deal with the same team that had previously stolen Rask. It was a very huge issue for people like me that strongly opposed the Kessel trade.

When I say that Burke might still have a job if he had not done the Kessel deal it is because people like me have not (and, will not) forgive him for going back on his word and giving up top picks for immediate short term relief.

Everyone here knows that I take some personal satisfaction in seeing Burke fired. I am not against the man. But, I have difficulty forgiving anyone who lies to me. And, we know Burke told a whopper.