So naive
- Crimsoninja

I know you have no clue and are just trolling...it's ok.

So naive
- Crimsoninja

Some of these guys are intoxicated on blue and white kool aid they cannot accept simple factual realities. Even when Burke says Boston won the trade they try to explain that he did not really say it. And, if he did say it he was wrong.

Some of these guys are intoxicated on blue and white kool aid they cannot accept simple factual realities. Even when Burke says Boston won the trade they try to explain that he did not really say it. And, if he did say it he was wrong.
- spatso

The link you posted say otherwise.

So naive
- Crimsoninja

If the Leafs operated like a sane organization they probably would have won a cup or two over the last 40+ years.

Some of these guys are intoxicated on blue and white kool aid they cannot accept simple factual realities. Even when Burke says Boston won the trade they try to explain that he did not really say it. And, if he did say it he was wrong.
- spatso

The proof you gave up says he'd make the trade again. You claimed he said he would not do the trade again and provided us proof you were wrong.

The proof you gave up says he'd make the trade again. You claimed he said he would not do the trade again and provided us proof you were wrong.
- RogerRoeper

That is just nonsense.

The article does a pretty good of laying out the sequence.

Burke makes two statements. Chiarelli won the deal. Yes, I would do the trade again.

As a reader you are left to wonder about how long a guy should keep his job if he is ready to repeat a losing deal (in his opinion).

Keep it simple, Burke understood at the time of the interview he would be selling out Kessel had he said I would not do the deal again (but he even qualifies that by saying that he did not think it would turn out to be #2 and a #9).

I really don't enjoy pounding on you over this stuff. Burke is gone. The Kessel deal was a huge part of his downfall in the minds of many fans. I can assure you that you would feel so much better if you just gave it up.

The link you posted say otherwise.
- burn

No!

The link is clear. Burke said Boston won the trade. End of story. Stop whining, deal with it!

No!

The link is clear. Burke said Boston won the trade. End of story. Stop whining, deal with it!
- spatso

I'm OK with Kessel on this team. Kessel is better than Seguin and Hamilton...... until either of them make an impact Leafs didn't lose the trade.


People keep forgetting that Kassel has become one of the best offensive weapons in the game. Deal with it and stop whining.

I think your trying to change definitions in a way that revises meaning. Most people believe that Kessel has demonstrated he is a superb hockey player. It is okay to like Kessel but still hate the trade.

I think Burke conceded many times that he would not have done the Kessel deal if he had known the Leafs were going to be a draft lottery team the following year.

There may be some truth that the Kessel trade looks better now than it did after year 1 or year 2 or year 3 but have you forgotten how brutal and painful each of those years were? Do you forget the anguish of the Tyler vs Tyler draft where everyone was so keen to ridicule the Leafs? Would you like to go back and ever do that again?
- spatso

Remember when you posted this a couple days ago?? Yeah you were wrong then, and still are today.

I'm OK with Kessel on this team. Kessel is better than Seguin and Hamilton...... until either of them make an impact Leafs didn't lose the trade.


People keep forgetting that Kassel has become one of the best offensive weapons in the game. Deal with it and stop whining.





Remember when you posted this a couple days ago?? Yeah you were wrong then, and still are today.
- burn

Duh! I think my post was and remains entirely accurate.

Duh! I think my post was and remains entirely accurate.
- spatso

Seriously?? Then you are dense.

You said Burke said he wouldn't do the deal again, then proceeded to post a link saying that he would still do the deal again.

I think your trying to change definitions in a way that revises meaning. Most people believe that Kessel has demonstrated he is a superb hockey player. It is okay to like Kessel but still hate the trade.

I think Burke conceded many times that he would not have done the Kessel deal if he had known the Leafs were going to be a draft lottery team the following year.

There may be some truth that the Kessel trade looks better now than it did after year 1 or year 2 or year 3 but have you forgotten how brutal and painful each of those years were? Do you forget the anguish of the Tyler vs Tyler draft where everyone was so keen to ridicule the Leafs? Would you like to go back and ever do that again?
- spatso

Seriously?? Then you are dense.

You said Burke said he wouldn't do the deal again, then proceeded to post a link saying that he would still do the deal again.
- burn

The only thing more apparent than your thickness is my patience and kindness towards you.

So, let's go through this slowly.

Burke is a lawyer and uses words carefully. He has clearly said three things that everyone can appreciate. First, he would do a deal again to obtain Kessel. Second, he never thought the deal would involve a #2 and #9 pick overall. Third, Chiarelli won the trade.

If you parse the language it is readily apparant that Burke believes he gave up too much to get Kessel (so, like me, he likes the player but not the deal). We don't know for certain but I think he wishes he had imposed a restriction on the deal so that it would have exempted any lottery pick.

The only thing more apparent than your thickness is my patience and kindness towards you.

So, let's go through this slowly.

Burke is a lawyer and uses words carefully. He has clearly said three things that everyone can appreciate. First, he would do a deal again to obtain Kessel. Second, he never thought the deal would involve a #2 and #9 pick overall. Third, Chiarelli won the trade.

If you parse the language it is readily apparant that Burke believes he gave up too much to get Kessel (so, like me, he likes the player but not the deal). We don't know for certain but I think he wishes he had imposed a restriction on the deal so that it would have exempted any lottery pick.
- spatso

Burke quote in your link: "I'd still do the deal".

Doesn't get more simpler that that.

The only thing more apparent than your thickness is my patience and kindness towards you.

So, let's go through this slowly.

Burke is a lawyer and uses words carefully. He has clearly said three things that everyone can appreciate. First, he would do a deal again to obtain Kessel. Second, he never thought the deal would involve a #2 and #9 pick overall. Third, Chiarelli won the trade.

If you parse the language it is readily apparant that Burke believes he gave up too much to get Kessel (so, like me, he likes the player but not the deal). We don't know for certain but I think he wishes he had imposed a restriction on the deal so that it would have exempted any lottery pick.
- spatso

I'd ask you for a link, but my fear is you'd provide a link that contradicts this.


It's hilarious how you called me think, yet you've said Burke said "He wouldn't make the trade again" and then posted a link to prove your point that quotes burke as saying "I'd still do the deal again". Yeah, Who's think again??

it's pretty obvious burke meant he would do the deal again.. with the pick being labeled as a 2010 first rounder (which he clearly assumed was going to be in the 10-15 range). that deal seemed fair at the time and one that any gm would do again. but when that pick became such a high one, the deal swung drastically in boston's favor

it also seems obvious that Burke wouldnt do it again knowing that the pick would eventually be the #2 overall.... hence why he states that boston won the trade

it's pretty obvious burke meant he would do the deal again.. with the pick being labeled as a 2010 first rounder (which he clearly assumed was going to be in the 10-15 range). that deal seemed fair at the time and one that any gm would do again. but when that pick became such a high one, the deal swung drastically in boston's favor

it also seems obvious that Burke wouldnt do it again knowing that the pick would eventually be the #2 overall.... hence why he states that boston won the trade
- Crimsoninja

He said he'd do the deal again even know that.


And yeah that's a fair assessment of the situation. I wasn't against it at first. Didn't see a lotto pick coming, but once it became clear it was a lotto pick it turned. Fast forward a couple years and Kessel has become an elite scorer and Seguin has stagnated. I think that the trade value has swung back into the Leafs favor. Seguin has a looooonng way to go to match Kessel and that was the whole problem with the deal. Everyone thought Seguin was going to rocket past Kessel and that hasn't happened, and it's not looking like it will.

He said he'd do the deal again even know that.


And yeah that's a fair assessment of the situation. I wasn't against it at first. Didn't see a lotto pick coming, but once it became clear it was a lotto pick it turned. Fast forward a couple years and Kessel has become an elite scorer and Seguin has stagnated. I think that the trade value has swung back into the Leafs favor. Seguin has a looooonng way to go to match Kessel and that was the whole problem with the deal. Everyone thought Seguin was going to rocket past Kessel and that hasn't happened, and it's not looking like it will.
- burn

kessel had a four year headstart.
seguin will be getting his first shot as a top center, his natural position next year. so we shall see.

Yeah you really have to give Seguin a few more years at least. Kessel was 23/24 when he hit 82 points.

I'm pretty happy with how good Kessel has become though. I never thought he'd be a point a game player.

The Kessel trade often blinded people over Burke's other moves. That Lupul/Gardiner trade is brilliant (And yes, Gardiner could end up better than Hamilton).. He added #2 overall pick JVR on a great contract @ age 23. He got Phaneuf @ age 26 for replaceable parts. Draftedc Kadri looks like a great move. Rielly is promising. I think Matt Finn looks like a brilliant pick in last year's second round.

Kessel trade, Kessel trade, Kessel trade. That's all people can think about.

When your "Worst" move is adding a 21 year-old future star, you've done a pretty solid job.

Yeah you really have to give Seguin a few more years at least. Kessel was 23/24 when he hit 82 points.

I'm pretty happy with how good Kessel has become though. I never thought he'd be a point a game player.
- daeth

In theory, yes. But there is nothing wrong with judging him now as so many called him a "Franchise Player" before he played a single game.

kessel had a four year headstart.
seguin will be getting his first shot as a top center, his natural position next year. so we shall see.
- Crimsoninja

We'll see indeed. He was beyond horrendous in the playoffs. He may turn out to be better, but I have a lot of doubts about it.

The Kessel trade often blinded people over Burke's other moves. That Lupul/Gardiner trade is brilliant (And yes, Gardiner could end up better than Hamilton).. He added #2 overall pick JVR on a great contract @ age 23. He got Phaneuf @ age 26 for replaceable parts. Draftedc Kadri looks like a great move. Rielly is promising. I think Matt Finn looks like a brilliant pick in last year's second round.

Kessel trade, Kessel trade, Kessel trade. That's all people can think about.

When your "Worst" move is adding a 21 year-old future star, you've done a pretty solid job.
- RogerRoeper

X2

We'll see indeed. He was beyond horrendous in the playoffs. He may turn out to be better, but I have a lot of doubts about it.
- burn

jason blake 2.0 in the playoffs. probably got a decent corsi with all his wide shots and shots directly at the goalie from bad angles though lol.

jason blake 2.0 in the playoffs. probably got a decent corsi with all his wide shots and shots directly at the goalie from bad angles though lol.
- daeth

Imagine the heat kessel would have taken if he was half as bad as seguin! And yet seguin is still thought of as better.

That's a bit different though. Seguin is just one part of the deal and Boston has had great success so the deal is almost irrelevant even if it turns out bad for them.

edit: and I don't think anyone is saying Seguin is better, though he still has the potential to be

That's a bit different though. Seguin is just one part of the deal and Boston has had great success so the deal is almost irrelevant even if it turns out bad for them.

edit: and I don't think anyone is saying Seguin is better, though he still has the potential to be
- daeth

That's the thing though, they are saying that. That's the argument.