That's silly then.

That's a bit different though. Seguin is just one part of the deal and Boston has had great success so the deal is almost irrelevant even if it turns out bad for them.

edit: and I don't think anyone is saying Seguin is better, though he still has the potential to be
- daeth

TSN has already stated that, so has many fans of other teams.

Hell, I thought HNIC was kissing Seguin's ass despite him barely being noticeable the entire playoffs.

Imagine the heat kessel would have taken if he was half as bad as seguin! And yet seguin is still thought of as better.
- burn

Kessel got more heat for not talking to reporters on a non game day prior to the start of the playoffs

TSN has already stated that, so has many fans of other teams.

Hell, I thought HNIC was kissing Seguin's ass despite him barely being noticeable the entire playoffs.
- RogerRoeper

Up to this most recent playoff round the primary criticism of Kessel was that he could score in bunches but never when it really mattered. So, a lot of people felt really good when the leafs finally knocked the Bruins out of the playoffs.

Up to this most recent playoff round the primary criticism of Kessel was that he could score in bunches but never when it really mattered. So, a lot of people felt really good when the leafs finally knocked the Bruins out of the playoffs.
- spatso

Kessel was PPG in the playoffs with Boston in his career (9 goals, 15 points in 15 playoff games), so that wasn't really fair (But you are correct about the criticism).

The crap Kessel has gotten has been so ridiculous I just ignore it. He has spent his Leaf career constantly proving people wrong.

Kessel was PPG in the playoffs with Boston in his career (9 goals, 15 points in 15 playoff games), so that wasn't really fair (But you are correct about the criticism).

The crap Kessel has gotten has been so ridiculous I just ignore it. He has spent his Leaf career constantly proving people wrong.
- RogerRoeper

I think this may be where you need to stop and look at your own words. The reason why he has constantly been having to be "proving people wrong" is because the price the Leafs paid for him was so high.

Expectations were shaped by the price. When it did not translate into team success fans became angry and frustrated. When the team collapsed in his first year fans blamed Kessel and Burke.

It is not about being fair. It is about expectations. When Bruin fans chanted "thank you Kessel," we all felt humiliated.

I think this may be where you need to stop and look at your own words. The reason why he has constantly been having to be "proving people wrong" is because the price the Leafs paid for him was so high.

Expectations were shaped by the price. When it did not translate into team success fans became angry and frustrated. When the team collapsed in his first year fans blamed Kessel and Burke.

It is not about being fair. It is about expectations. When Bruin fans chanted "thank you Kessel," we all felt humiliated.
- spatso

We did. But I think people jumped the gun on the trade.

Kessel has been a solid playoff performer.

The Ottawa thing is really important. Many Leaf fans benchmark the progress of the Leafs in relation to other Canadian teams, especially Montreal and Ottawa. Indeed, Leaf post season success over the last 45 years is measured in relation to a non call on a high sticking by Gretsky and a series of first round playoff victories over an emerging and talented Ottawa team. But, those are now historical items.

The Ottawa rebuild is a perplexing and intimidating matter to all Leaf fans. The prediction that I made that got some Leaf fans so twisted was that the Senators would recognize their need for a rebuild, trade some key players, build through the draft and attain elite status before the Leafs. For lack of a precise definition let's assume elite status is becoming a legitimate Stanley Cup contender in the eyes of a majority of hockey students. (In that regard I advocated that the Senators should cut deep, including trading Spezza as part of the rebuild.) Clearly my thinking in this regard was shaped by the Kessel deal. Again, I need to stress I never disliked Kessel, as a player, but I despised the deal. The same can be said for the Senators and their deal for Bobby Ryan. Love the player but they gave up way too much talent.

Anyway, it appears that many commentators believe the Senators are now ready for prime time. Is it true they only missed the playoffs one year during their rebuilding period? This is and should be upsetting to many of the Leaf faithful. We wandered in the wilderness for 10 years and commentators ( especially those doing advanced metrics) suggest the Leafs are going to fall back again this year).

I have no difficulty with the idea that Burke did some very good hockey deals. But, in my mind, the Kessel trade was a deal breaker. He broke the promise that he would build through the draft. We will never know how different this team could be had Burke taken a few years to build a deeper talent pool by employing a stronger draft and development priority in those first few years.

Not sure why your so hostile to Seguin. Kid has some off ice issues. Not uncommon in the NHL. He is earning huge bucks at 21 years of age. Boston has a serious cap squeeze so they trade Seguin for Ericsson, pretty good hockey trade for a Stanley Cup finalist. But, you miss the entire issue when you spend your time hoping that Seguin fails in order to prove maybe Burke did a good deal. It was not the players involved, it was the bankruptcy of his conviction to build through the draft.
- spatso

Yeah, I'm not seeing thus far that the Senators are better or have done a better job at rebuilding. One of their best forwards (Macarthur) is a guy Toronto had no use for.

And I always found it odd in regards to predictions, that the Leafs were supposed to be so screwed because of the Grabovski/Macarthur(Two players that took reduced roles last season and the team was better than anytime with them in top 6 roles) departures, yet not a single person brought up how there was not a chance in hell Ottawa would get the same goaltending as last season.

Yeah, I'm not seeing thus far that the Senators are better or have done a better job at rebuilding. One of their best forwards (Macarthur) is a guy Toronto had no use for.

And I always found it odd in regards to predictions, that the Leafs were supposed to be so screwed because of the Grabovski/Macarthur(Two players that took reduced roles last season and the team was better than anytime with them in top 6 roles) departures, yet not a single person brought up how there was not a chance in hell Ottawa would get the same goaltending as last season.
- RogerRoeper

Ottawa's goal-tending is probably the only thing that has been any good so far this season. Once the rest of the team gets going the goal-tending will also improve a notch.

Goal-tending is the last thing Ottawa needs to worry about.

Ottawa's goal-tending is probably the only thing that has been any good so far this season. Once the rest of the team gets going the goal-tending will also improve a notch.

Goal-tending is the last thing Ottawa needs to worry about.
- Doppleganger

Secondary scoring is one of the biggest issues.

Yeah, I'm not seeing thus far that the Senators are better or have done a better job at rebuilding. One of their best forwards (Macarthur) is a guy Toronto had no use for.

And I always found it odd in regards to predictions, that the Leafs were supposed to be so screwed because of the Grabovski/Macarthur(Two players that took reduced roles last season and the team was better than anytime with them in top 6 roles) departures, yet not a single person brought up how there was not a chance in hell Ottawa would get the same goaltending as last season.
- RogerRoeper

I think with the way the sens finished last season everyone over rated them big time. With the injuries last year they overachieved and when you look at them they have a solid first line then are pretty thin unless some of the young guys step up. Also Anderson played so well there is no way he can repeat those numbers. They are a good team just not what people think.

I think with the way the sens finished last season everyone over rated them big time. With the injuries last year they overachieved and when you look at them they have a solid first line then are pretty thin unless some of the young guys step up. Also Anderson played so well there is no way he can repeat those numbers. They are a good team just not what people think.
- jordan456789

I think people looked at them having so many injuries and thought they have to statistically be better health wise, so they'll do even better and be a contender. It doesn't always work that way. Their goaltending last season was unreal. It wasn't sustainable.

Speaking of Brian Burke, think of how great it would have been for the Senators had they fired Murray in the off season, before the Ryan trade, and upgraded to Burke.

Its a shame. Too late. Stuck with Murray I guess.

Speaking of Brian Burke, think of how great it would have been for the Senators had they fired Murray in the off season, before the Ryan trade, and upgraded to Burke.

Its a shame. Too late. Stuck with Murray I guess.
- prock

Why would anyone in their right mind fire a GM, who helped guide his team into the second round of the playoffs (no greatest game seven collapse like the leafs) while all other Canadian based teams either did not make the playoffs or were bounced in the first round.

Secondly, why would anyone in their right mind hire Burke after failing to deliver in toronto?

Thirdly, Ryan is now a Senator, and if not signed before the end of next season, he could very well bring back a number of good assets. He won't be allowed to leave for nothing............use your brains a little bit.

Why would anyone in their right mind fire a GM, who helped guide his team into the second round of the playoffs (no greatest game seven collapse like the leafs) while all other Canadian based teams either did not make the playoffs or were bounced in the first round.

Secondly, why would anyone in their right mind hire Burke after failing to deliver in toronto?

Thirdly, Ryan is now a Senator, and if not signed before the end of next season, he could very well bring back a number of good assets. He won't be allowed to leave for nothing............use your brains a little bit.
- Doppleganger

Well, he's currently the GM of Calgary. He has been hired.

I think Burke is looking a lot better now than he did when he was fired less than a year ago.

Well, he's currently the GM of Calgary. He has been hired.

I think Burke is looking a lot better now than he did when he was fired less than a year ago.
- RogerRoeper

Yeah, he "hired" himself when he fired the GM.

Yeah, he "hired" himself when he fired the GM.
- Doppleganger

They did hire him as President first. And everyone knew he'd be siring Feaster sooner rather than later.

They did hire him as President first. And everyone knew he'd be siring Feaster sooner rather than later.
- RogerRoeper

- senstroll

siring

noun
1.
the male parent of a quadruped.
2.
a respectful term of address, now used only to a male sovereign.
3.
Archaic.
a.
a father or forefather.
b.
a person of importance or in a position of authority, as a lord.

siring

noun
1.
the male parent of a quadruped.
2.
a respectful term of address, now used only to a male sovereign.
3.
Archaic.
a.
a father or forefather.
b.
a person of importance or in a position of authority, as a lord.
- Doppleganger

thanks doppledictionary
i can only assume he meant Fire instead

thanks doppledictionary
i can only assume he meant Fire instead
- senstroll

A couple of the definitions do work though.

I laughed.

Speaking of Brian Burke, think of how great it would have been for the Senators had they fired Murray in the off season, before the Ryan trade, and upgraded to Burke.

Its a shame. Too late. Stuck with Murray I guess.
- prock

Regardless of why Ottawa might or might not want him, I don't see that Burke would have been gone to a self-imposed cap team. Until last season Calgary had been a top 5-10 payroll team. Gives him freedom to sign bad contracts.