Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Familiar Script in Preseason Loss

That's the scary part: we've seen this movie quite often in recent years, especially against the Devils and Rangers.

Considering how divisional games are now emphasized, a few more performances like this in the coming months and Lavy will by gone by Christmas day.

I can't wait for this pre-season stuff to be done with.

One more week!

The bad gaps, the slow starts, the constant losing to Jersey and other hard working teams. The only way to change it is to change the system that is in place. Once again it seems that Lavy is going to have it his way with another's (Clarke) team. Since these two cannot get on the same page as far as player involvement in the system that is being played, maybe, just maybe it's time to bid adieu to both of them. Pray for a a good start or things are going to get rocky real fast.

I thought Giroux looked amazing and I never got all the love for him but after last night I am a believer Dude is unreal. Interesting you didn't mention that you guys where destroying us in the hit category Schneider has been amazing. I also thought the game wasn't near as boring as fans of other teams where saying it was.

Great blog, as usual.

A couple things (and I'll try to keep them short):

You can't beat New Jersey the way the Flyers play without right-handed defensemen. This was discussed over and over when the Flyers got annihilated by the Devils in 2011. On the forecheck, the Devils attack left-handed defensemen who have to play the puck on their backhand -- that's how they make their dump-ins and its how they force so many turnovers: They make the defensemen who is being attacked attempt weak passes and clears on their backhand.

This is what led the Flyers to acquiring Luke Schenn, bringing in Bruno Gervais and Kurtis Foster, and after not getting Ryan Suter without giving up anything other than cash in free agency, led them to offering Shea Weber the Wells Fargo Center in his offer sheet.

The Flyers...I saw some good things last night, the things everyone else saw. And I think the team, with the obvious moves that will be made to ensure cap compliance, is a good team.

But I do believe that the Flyers really need to look at making a hockey trade, not a salary dump, for a right-handed defenseman who can play. If you're going to pair Mark Streit with Luke Schenn, great. That pairing should work.

But somehow, even if it costs Braydon Coburn and a pick, something like that, the Flyers need to get a guy who can skate and carry the puck who is right-handed, who can play with Kimmo Timonen. Otherwise we are never going to beat teams that forecheck the way the Devils and Rangers do (or did, under John Torterella), or the way that Tampa Bay played under Guy Boucher.

You have to have more than one right-handed defenseman who can actually play.

Even though I am starting to be swayed toward the notion of a coaching change.

Hitch: too defense focused
Stevens: not enough "hunt the puck"
Lava: too aggressive

Would like to see some consistency in terms of style of play. Stick to a damn path.

The bad gaps, the slow starts, the constant losing to Jersey and other hard working teams. The only way to change it is to change the system that is in place. Once again it seems that Lavy is going to have it his way with another's (Clarke) team. Since these two cannot get on the same page as far as player involvement in the system that is being played, maybe, just maybe it's time to bid adieu to both of them. Pray for a a good start or things are going to get rocky real fast.
- ICUBB

Defensemen Erik Gustafsson and partner Mark Streit ended up on the same side of the ice and New Jersey defenseman Marek Zidlicky was able to pinch in untouched...

How is that an example of a poor system? Looks to me like poor decision making on the part of the players.

Maybe if the players paid closer attention to their assignments and played a bit harder, this wouldn't be an issue.

It's pre-season and players are still learning how to play with each other, so step away from the edge.

the GM of New Jersey always has good coaching and goaltending

the GM of New Jersey always has good coaching and goaltending
- vejim

Its going to be mildy amusing and ironic to me if the Flyers release Lava and bring in a more defense minded coach.

The exact thing, that may have helped Bryzgalov the most.

You have to have more than one right-handed defenseman who can actually play.
- AllInForFlyers

This is gonna sound like a dumb question, but are the Flyers the only team in hockey with this problem?

I suspect they are not.

Entirely serious question.

Do you think the Flyers looked at the Pens of three years ago, decided they could not beat them with grinding players (eg Richards) so they rebuilt the team around the idea that they would be a skating attacking team. And, although the Flyers have been able match up nicely against the Pens, they now have more of a problem with the teams that can play that physical grinding style (Rangers, Devils, Bruins, Leafs, Senators).

These are no longer your father's Flyers. Their most aggressive and physical players do not have a lot of size.

Defensemen Erik Gustafsson and partner Mark Streit ended up on the same side of the ice and New Jersey defenseman Marek Zidlicky was able to pinch in untouched...

How is that an example of a poor system? Looks to me like poor decision making on the part of the players.

Maybe if the players paid closer attention to their assignments and played a bit harder, this wouldn't be an issue.

It's pre-season and players are still learning how to play with each other, so step away from the edge.
- 77rams

That's one sequence in the game. Look at the game as a whole. The same issues are still there. This team can't breakout against a solid forecheck. Still relies far too much on stretch passes. Can't get a forecheck going because they spend far too much time in their own end. There were certainly some individual mistakes made last night. But the Flyers still haven't adjusted what they need to adjust.

Here is my assessment from last not. I'm not happy that we once again have to deal with a team unable to play 60 minutes of hockey. Hopefully its just because its pre-season, but it looked like too many games last season.

I believe Raffl looks like the better player between him and Laughton, and I hope he wins the spot. I was impressed with what I saw.

I really liked how Streit looked in this game too. He had a lot of nice set-up strech passes, al la Pronger to Giroux. I hope this continues. Not sure why they would have Streit playing with Gus, but that just asked for a defensive break-down.

Does anyone know what side Streit normally plays on? Will he stay on the Right side, or when Schenn plays will he move to the Left defense?

On the 1st goal the only thing I would say is that I would never pair Streit and Gustafsson, that pairing is a disaster waiting to happen. Both are undersized and tend to make mistakes in their own zone.

If a trade isn't made I would hope the opening night pairings are:
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Streit
Grossmann-Mezaros

and when its time to shorten the bench to protect a lead just go with
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann

Great blog, as usual.

A couple things (and I'll try to keep them short):

You can't beat New Jersey the way the Flyers play without right-handed defensemen. This was discussed over and over when the Flyers got annihilated by the Devils in 2011. On the forecheck, the Devils attack left-handed defensemen who have to play the puck on their backhand -- that's how they make their dump-ins and its how they force so many turnovers: They make the defensemen who is being attacked attempt weak passes and clears on their backhand.

This is what led the Flyers to acquiring Luke Schenn, bringing in Bruno Gervais and Kurtis Foster, and after not getting Ryan Suter without giving up anything other than cash in free agency, led them to offering Shea Weber the Wells Fargo Center in his offer sheet.

The Flyers...I saw some good things last night, the things everyone else saw. And I think the team, with the obvious moves that will be made to ensure cap compliance, is a good team.

But I do believe that the Flyers really need to look at making a hockey trade, not a salary dump, for a right-handed defenseman who can play. If you're going to pair Mark Streit with Luke Schenn, great. That pairing should work.

But somehow, even if it costs Braydon Coburn and a pick, something like that, the Flyers need to get a guy who can skate and carry the puck who is right-handed, who can play with Kimmo Timonen. Otherwise we are never going to beat teams that forecheck the way the Devils and Rangers do (or did, under John Torterella), or the way that Tampa Bay played under Guy Boucher.

You have to have more than one right-handed defenseman who can actually play.
- AllInForFlyers

You make some good points. But not having enough RH defenseman isn't the problem. Making a trade for a RH defenseman, unless he's a top defenseman, isn't going to change much. And that player would make a difference even if he was LH. The Flyers breakout scheme is still the same. Either stretch passes up the ice, or defenseman putting the puck along the wall, into 50/50 puck battles. How about a Center coming back deep on a curl out, or in, and using the middle of the ice? On a Center breakout, with a forward coming off the wall as an option. Teams know the Flyers come up the wall, so they forecheck to that side. Make an adjustement. Which can be done without adding another RH defenseman. That would be nice, but as long as the brreakout scheme remains the same, wouldn't change alot. Unless that player is a true top defenseman.

Defensemen Erik Gustafsson and partner Mark Streit ended up on the same side of the ice and New Jersey defenseman Marek Zidlicky was able to pinch in untouched...

How is that an example of a poor system? Looks to me like poor decision making on the part of the players.

Maybe if the players paid closer attention to their assignments and played a bit harder, this wouldn't be an issue.

It's pre-season and players are still learning how to play with each other, so step away from the edge.
- 77rams

That is one case of an individual breakdown. I counted 5 instances, in the first period alone, of the Flyers getting the puck near their own blueline, and the gap between the puck carrier and forwards was so vast and filled with Devils that it was impossible to generate any speed in the transition game.

That's either systemic or a case of a coach who has no control of his team.

Entirely serious question.

Do you think the Flyers looked at the Pens of three years ago, decided they could not beat them with grinding players (eg Richards) so they rebuilt the team around the idea that they would be a skating attacking team. And, although the Flyers have been able match up nicely against the Pens, they now have more of a problem with the teams that can play that physical grinding style (Rangers, Devils, Bruins, Leafs, Senators).

These are no longer your father's Flyers. Their most aggressive and physical players do not have a lot of size.
- spatso

I will say that its more of a system issue. The Flyers still have some bigger guys, but they use most of thier size for scoring. They aren't a grinding team any more. I don't think it had much to do with the Pens or anyone else other then Lavi. This is the system he likes to play.

Great blog, as usual.

A couple things (and I'll try to keep them short):

You can't beat New Jersey the way the Flyers play without right-handed defensemen. This was discussed over and over when the Flyers got annihilated by the Devils in 2011. On the forecheck, the Devils attack left-handed defensemen who have to play the puck on their backhand -- that's how they make their dump-ins and its how they force so many turnovers: They make the defensemen who is being attacked attempt weak passes and clears on their backhand.

This is what led the Flyers to acquiring Luke Schenn, bringing in Bruno Gervais and Kurtis Foster, and after not getting Ryan Suter without giving up anything other than cash in free agency, led them to offering Shea Weber the Wells Fargo Center in his offer sheet.

The Flyers...I saw some good things last night, the things everyone else saw. And I think the team, with the obvious moves that will be made to ensure cap compliance, is a good team.

But I do believe that the Flyers really need to look at making a hockey trade, not a salary dump, for a right-handed defenseman who can play. If you're going to pair Mark Streit with Luke Schenn, great. That pairing should work.

But somehow, even if it costs Braydon Coburn and a pick, something like that, the Flyers need to get a guy who can skate and carry the puck who is right-handed, who can play with Kimmo Timonen. Otherwise we are never going to beat teams that forecheck the way the Devils and Rangers do (or did, under John Torterella), or the way that Tampa Bay played under Guy Boucher.

You have to have more than one right-handed defenseman who can actually play.
- AllInForFlyers

While it would certainly be nice to have another one or two quality right handed defenseman, it's not the only way to beat the Devils.

The key is greatly shorten the gap on between the D and forwards on the left side to make it easier on the D. Time and time again the gap between forwards and D ends up looking like the Grand Canyon. Until the Flyers make a better commitment to overall team defense, they will continue to struggle to beat the Devils.

This is gonna sound like a dumb question, but are the Flyers the only team in hockey with this problem?

I suspect they are not.
- johndewar

They're not -- but the better teams know this and have already addressed it.

I looked into this after it was discussed in 2011, and here's what I saw:

In 2011, the Kings, with Drew Doughty and Slava Voynov, easily broke New Jersey's forecheck, went up 3-0 in the Cup finals, and closed them out.

In 2012, the Blackhawks, with Brent Seabrook and Michael Roszival, finally solved Boston's stifling defensive system -- and came back to win the Cup, after figuring out that the Bruins could be attacked on the forecheck on Zdeno Chara's backhand side. The Bruins themselves have righthanders Adam McQuaid, Johnny Boychuk and Dougie Hamilton.

The Penguins have Letang and Niskanen. The Blues have three guys -- Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Polak -- on their top three pairs.

So, yes, the Flyers aren't the only team with this issue. The problem is that most of the better teams in hockey have addressed it.

They're not -- but the better teams know this and have already addressed it.

I looked into this after it was discussed in 2011, and here's what I saw:

In 2011, the Kings, with Drew Doughty and Slava Voynov, easily broke New Jersey's forecheck, went up 3-0 in the Cup finals, and closed them out.

In 2012, the Blackhawks, with Brent Seabrook and Michael Roszival, finally solved Boston's stifling defensive system -- and came back to win the Cup, after figuring out that the Bruins could be attacked on the forecheck on Zdeno Chara's backhand side. The Bruins themselves have righthanders Adam McQuaid, Johnny Boychuk and Dougie Hamilton.

The Penguins have Letang and Niskanen. The Blues have three guys -- Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Polak -- on their top three pairs.

So, yes, the Flyers aren't the only team with this issue. The problem is that most of the better teams in hockey have addressed it.
- AllInForFlyers

What kind of breakout did LA use against the Devils?

That's one sequence in the game. Look at the game as a whole. The same issues are still there. This team can't breakout against a solid forecheck. Still relies far too much on stretch passes. Can't get a forecheck going because they spend far too much time in their own end. There were certainly some individual mistakes made last night. But the Flyers still haven't adjusted what they need to adjust.
- MJL

I'm not going to be dragged into this tiresome, ridiculous debate. It's fruitless and a total waste of time

Suffice it to say this is the pre-season and players are still learning each other and their assignments. The Devils are in mid-season from because their system hasn't changed much in the past twenty five years.

If we were to forecast now what will happen when the season begins because of these games, then lets not waste time and anoint Columbus and Toronto as division winners.

They're not -- but the better teams know this and have already addressed it.

I looked into this after it was discussed in 2011, and here's what I saw:

In 2011, the Kings, with Drew Doughty and Slava Voynov, easily broke New Jersey's forecheck, went up 3-0 in the Cup finals, and closed them out.

In 2012, the Blackhawks, with Brent Seabrook and Michael Roszival, finally solved Boston's stifling defensive system -- and came back to win the Cup, after figuring out that the Bruins could be attacked on the forecheck on Zdeno Chara's backhand side. The Bruins themselves have righthanders Adam McQuaid, Johnny Boychuk and Dougie Hamilton.

The Penguins have Letang and Niskanen. The Blues have three guys -- Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Polak -- on their top three pairs.

So, yes, the Flyers aren't the only team with this issue. The problem is that most of the better teams in hockey have addressed it.
- AllInForFlyers

Lets also not forget that the Kings, Blackhawks, Bruins and Blues ALL make a much better overall commitment to team D than do the Flyers. Do you honestly think Hitchcock or Julien would tolerate those huge gaps between the forwards and D that we routinely see with the Flyers?

Ut oh... looks like Lavi's going to be the red headed step child this year....

They're not -- but the better teams know this and have already addressed it.

I looked into this after it was discussed in 2011, and here's what I saw:

In 2011, the Kings, with Drew Doughty and Slava Voynov, easily broke New Jersey's forecheck, went up 3-0 in the Cup finals, and closed them out.

In 2012, the Blackhawks, with Brent Seabrook and Michael Roszival, finally solved Boston's stifling defensive system -- and came back to win the Cup, after figuring out that the Bruins could be attacked on the forecheck on Zdeno Chara's backhand side. The Bruins themselves have righthanders Adam McQuaid, Johnny Boychuk and Dougie Hamilton.

The Penguins have Letang and Niskanen. The Blues have three guys -- Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Polak -- on their top three pairs.

So, yes, the Flyers aren't the only team with this issue. The problem is that most of the better teams in hockey have addressed it.
- AllInForFlyers

And while the Pens may have right handed dmen, their refusal to play better overall team D has cost them dearly the last couple of post seasons as well.