+/- career
Kimo +34
Mez +33
Coby +29
Gross + 8
Schen -23
Streit -57
- strongsupporter

Schenn played on some bad Toronto clubs while Streit played on some terrible Islander clubs, while Timonen for example, played on mostly solid to good teams in Nashville and Philly. Plus/minus usually has as much to do with the team as it does with the player.

Also Streit's best work, and much of his production comes on the pp, and would not be reflected in plus/minus

No, just the goalies.
- Feanor

Yeah, you're right, Krajicek/Parent was fearsome.

If you swap Gretzky and Ron Sutter, Flyers beat Oilers in 5.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah, you're right, Krajicek/Parent was fearsome.
- Tomahawk

I would rather have Krajicek/Parent than Big Buff. Absolutely zero interest in him.

Giroux had 21 points playing on the third line.

The main difference in that series was Leighton giving up one back breaking soft goal after another.

Probably not because they usually enjoy getting that playoff gate receipt money.

That didn't go so well last year.
- johndewar

WE can sit here and speculate but we dont know the Flyers financial...for them to be signing streit at that rate proves to me that they can afford it.

Giroux had 21 points playing on the third line.

The main difference in that series was Leighton giving up one back breaking soft goal after another.
- Feanor

Wrong. Boucher gave up one too.

Giroux had 21 points playing on the third line.

The main difference in that series was Leighton giving up one back breaking soft goal after another.
- Feanor

Yup, actually 97 was pretty much the same as both Snow and Hextall gave up some terrible goals in that series. Detroit was the better team for the most part, but if the Flyers goalies had made a big save or 2, who knows.

Yeah, it's all about spending smartly, and as Homer's track record has shown, he very often doesn't.
- Tomahawk

I give the Flyers in general and Mr. Snider in particular all the respect in the hockey world for consistently trying to assemble the best team and sparing no expense to do so.

That said, I couldn't agree more that spending to the cap limit is a good thing as long as you are getting value for your money, both now and at the end of the contract, which is where is have problems. Few examples...

Pronger - terrific acquisition, horrible contract.
Breeze - made sense to most at the time to trade for his rights, horrible contract.
Lecavalier - great pickup, horrible contract length
Streit - nice pickup for 2 years, the last two years will be an albatross at that cap hit.

Let's not get into the NTC's and NMC's.

Obviously the team is not in a great situation now, but it's silly to pretend 2010 was all a mirage when they had 106 points the next season despite Pronger missing 30 games, and and 103 points the next season despite Pronger missing 70 games and having a team SV% near the bottom of the league.

Obviously the team is not in a great situation now, but it's silly to pretend 2010 was all a mirage when they had 106 points the next season despite Pronger missing 30 games, and and 103 points the next season despite Pronger missing 70 games and having a team SV% near the bottom of the league.
- Feanor

The way the Bruins and Devils dismantled the Flyers in the PO's was a more accurate measuring stick than those subsequent regular season point totals, IMO.

Especially when you consider that the Flyers tended to struggle against the better teams during those regular seasons in question.

That premature Cup run was not a good thing to happen to this team in retrospect... they were lulled into thinking that they were only a step away from winning the prize, instead of stepping back and realizing that they were a team that literally sneaked into the PO's and rode a sequence of very favorable matchups and hot goaltending to the Cup Finals.

In reality, they were really never that close, but kept making moves/signings with a mind that it was within their grasp.
- Tomahawk

But that happens a lot more often than people realize because that's how hard it is to win the cup. A lot of teams who go on to win the cup do so as a result of hot goaltending and favorable matchups. The Chicago Blackhawks team that just won the cup last year was lightyears better than the team that won in 2010. There are so many variables involved in the winning team's championship run.

Off topic, but anyone see this quote from Nail Yakupov?



Your move, Dallas Eakins.

Link: http://www.edmontonjourna...+rules/9033031/story.html
- johndewar

Looks like he'll be hitting the waiver wire; I'm dropping his ass off my fantasy team

The final non-empty net Detroit goal was their lone even strength goal of the game. It came off the line rush, with Henrik Zetterberg getting a little bit of separation from Claude Giroux and snapping off a shot that beat Emery to the glove side as Zetterberg moved left across the center medium-range.
- bmeltzer

Great blog as usual Bill. Although I have to say, the above quote seems like a pretty charitable description of Giroux's blown coverage on that Zetterberg goal. Giroux didn't seem to even notice Zetterberg cruising through the high slot until it was too late. Not exactly the poster child for Berube's "Play better without the puck" campaign, at least not on that play.

But that happens a lot more often than people realize because that's how hard it is to win the cup. A lot of teams who go on to win the cup do so as a result of hot goaltending and favorable matchups. The Chicago Blackhawks team that just won the cup last year was lightyears better than the team that won in 2010. There are so many variables involved in the winning team's championship run.
- mcefalu

That 2010 team was beastly....

4/6 dmen from that group have become legitimate top-pairing guys (Buff, Campbell, Keith, Seabrook). 3rd-line guys like Bolland, Ladd and Brouwer have gone on to become top-six/top-PP forwards on other teams. That team was loaded.

That 2010 team was beastly....

4/6 dmen from that group have become legitimate top-pairing guys (Buff, Campbell, Keith, Seabrook). 3rd-line guys like Bolland, Ladd and Brouwer have gone on to become top-six/top-PP forwards on other teams. That team was loaded.
- Tomahawk

Yeah but goaltending and team defense was average at best. Offensively they were loaded yes with a lot of production power. I watched that team all year and their defense left much to be desired. Niemi was also not nearly as good as he is now.

I give the Flyers in general and Mr. Snider in particular all the respect in the hockey world for consistently trying to assemble the best team and sparing no expense to do so.

That said, I couldn't agree more that spending to the cap limit is a good thing as long as you are getting value for your money, both now and at the end of the contract, which is where is have problems. Few examples...

Pronger - terrific acquisition, horrible contract.
Breeze - made sense to most at the time to trade for his rights, horrible contract.
Lecavalier - great pickup, horrible contract length
Streit - nice pickup for 2 years, the last two years will be an albatross at that cap hit.

Let's not get into the NTC's and NMC's.
- 77rams

Contract lengths are not as big an issue as NTC/NMC. You can always trade those guys at the deadline as teams need vets. NTC/NMC kills this team. Homer needs to give the option of a NMC or a year less in the contract.

That 2010 team was beastly....

4/6 dmen from that group have become legitimate top-pairing guys (Buff, Campbell, Keith, Seabrook). 3rd-line guys like Bolland, Ladd and Brouwer have gone on to become top-six/top-PP forwards on other teams. That team was loaded.
- Tomahawk

And it all started with drafting Kane, which we should have had. Yet again the NHL's conspiracy to keep the Flyers down...

Giroux had 21 points playing on the third line.

The main difference in that series was Leighton giving up one back breaking soft goal after another.
- Feanor

like niemi was stellar? Don't kid yourself. the goalies were closer to a push than the lineups were

That 2010 team was beastly....

4/6 dmen from that group have become legitimate top-pairing guys (Buff, Campbell, Keith, Seabrook). 3rd-line guys like Bolland, Ladd and Brouwer have gone on to become top-six/top-PP forwards on other teams. That team was loaded.
- Tomahawk

Although, now that I look at the stats from that season, Chicago was actually pretty good defensively in terms of goals allowed that season. My mistake!

In any case, I still think last years cup team was a lot better and more consistent than 2010's team, although the shortened season surely may have contributed in some way to that

Great blog as usual Bill. Although I have to say, the above quote seems like a pretty charitable description of Giroux's blown coverage on that Zetterberg goal. Giroux didn't seem to even notice Zetterberg cruising through the high slot until it was too late. Not exactly the poster child for Berube's "Play better without the puck" campaign, at least not on that play.
- BringBack25

its plays like that that seperate Roo fom the elites of the league

like niemi was stellar? Don't kid yourself. the goalies were closer to a push than the lineups were
- Just5

This is true. Niemi was not great in that series. He was good enough to win, but not great by any means

That premature Cup run was not a good thing to happen to this team in retrospect... they were lulled into thinking that they were only a step away from winning the prize, instead of stepping back and realizing that they were a team that literally sneaked into the PO's and rode a sequence of very favorable matchups and hot goaltending to the Cup Finals.

In reality, they were really never that close, but kept making moves/signings with a mind that it was within their grasp.
- Tomahawk

interesting thought. if krecji never got injured who knows what flyers look like

like niemi was stellar? Don't kid yourself. the goalies were closer to a push than the lineups were
- Just5

Agreed. But if the Flyers don't blow several leads in Game 1 and they win that OT in Game 6, they'd have won the Stanley Cup. If Leighton had played even marginally better, the Flyers would have won the Cup. Not blaming it all on the goaltending, because Niemi (and the Chicago D) were pretty mediocre, too.

How did the Flyers match up on paper to the Bruins in 1974? THAT was a lot more lopsided on paper than the Flyers vs. Hawks lineups, although the Hawks also had the better collection of talent.

Leighton didn't have to be Bernie Parent in his prime vs. Chicago. He just had to be a non-factor.

No, just the goalies.
- Feanor

or just the third pair. either switch...


so close