or just the third pair. either switch...


so close
- -davies-

It still hurts.

Agreed. But if the Flyers don't blow several leads in Game 1 and they win that OT in Game 6, they'd have won the Stanley Cup. If Leighton had played even marginally better, the Flyers would have won the Cup. Not blaming it all on the goaltending, because Niemi (and the Chicago D) were pretty mediocre, too.

How did the Flyers match up on paper to the Bruins in 1974? THAT was a lot more lopsided on paper than the Flyers vs. Hawks lineups, although the Hawks also had the better collection of talent.

Leighton didn't have to be Bernie Parent in his prime vs. Chicago. He just had to be a non-factor.
- bmeltzer

He just had to be Michael Leigton of the Montreal series...

looks like all 4 Philly teams are in a 3 year rebuild

This is true. Niemi was not great in that series. He was good enough to win, but not great by any means
- mcefalu

It was all about depth... 'Hawks had an abundance of up-and-coming young legs... the Flyers had to sacrifice some forward depth in the Pronger trade and young depth guys like Upshall and Umberger were previously sacrificed due to cap reasons. And of course, having a third d pairing where both players have proved to be much less than NHL players (in Parent's case, fringe even in the AHL as it turns out), was a huge impediment.

It still hurts.
- BulliesPhan87

It does. Because Tomahawk's right: Chicago was loaded. And the Flyers still could've won. They adjusted to Chicago's speed and skill advantage.

That one...stings.

It does. Because Tomahawk's right: Chicago was loaded. And the Flyers still could've won. They adjusted to Chicago's speed and skill advantage.

That one...stings.
- AllInForFlyers

Chicago may have had more depth of talent, but the Flyers had so much depth in the destiny column.

I want to see Holmgren get a second round pick for Meszaros.

Meszaros is a better player than Pavel Kubina, and he fetched a second round pick.

I guess the problem is, Holmgren can't trade Meszaros to the Flyers.

Schenn played on some bad Toronto clubs while Streit played on some terrible Islander clubs, while Timonen for example, played on mostly solid to good teams in Nashville and Philly. Plus/minus usually has as much to do with the team as it does with the player.

Also Streit's best work, and much of his production comes on the pp, and would not be reflected in plus/minus
- BiggE

Want to try the same analysis on this year's team?

I want to see Holmgren get a second round pick for Meszaros.

Meszaros is a better player than Pavel Kubina, and he fetched a second round pick.

I guess the problem is, Holmgren can't trade Meszaros to the Flyers.
- PLindbergh31

Homer only trades 2nd rounders

Chicago may have had more depth of talent, but the Flyers had so much depth in the destiny column.
- BulliesPhan87

Hehe, yeah... nice way of putting it.

Leighton's never looked as good as he did during parts of that PO run. Same for Briere and Leino. Carle and Coburn as well. You could argue that Mike Richards' level has never been as high as it was during that PO run, even though he's won a Cup since. Pronger was 35 and counting.

Whereas, Chicago's core players are even better today than they were then... some of their depth players have gone on to be stars in the league... and they had guys like Bickell not even in the lineup.

So it was really dangerous for Homer to get the idea that the 2010 Flyers and 2010 'Hawks were pretty close... in actuality, they were miles apart.

I want to see Holmgren get a second round pick for Meszaros.

Meszaros is a better player than Pavel Kubina, and he fetched a second round pick.

I guess the problem is, Holmgren can't trade Meszaros to the Flyers.
- PLindbergh31

If he plays well all season and doesn't get hurt, they should be able to get a decent pick for him near the deadline.

Pittsburgh gave up a second rounder for Douglas Murray last season.

Hehe, yeah... nice way of putting it.

Leighton's never looked as good as he did during parts of that PO run. Same for Briere and Leino. Carle and Coburn as well. You could argue that Mike Richards' level has never been as high as it was during that PO run, even though he's won a Cup since. Pronger was 35 and counting.

Whereas, Chicago's core players are even better today than they were then... some of their depth players have gone on to be stars in the league... and they had guys like Bickell not even in the lineup.

So it was really dangerous for Homer to get the idea that the 2010 Flyers and 2010 'Hawks were pretty close... in actuality, they were miles apart.
- Tomahawk

and niemi's developed into a damn good goalie

Hehe, yeah... nice way of putting it.

Leighton's never looked as good as he did during parts of that PO run. Same for Briere and Leino. Carle and Coburn as well. You could argue that Mike Richards' level has never been as high as it was during that PO run, even though he's won a Cup since. Pronger was 35 and counting.

Whereas, Chicago's core players are even better today than they were then... some of their depth players have gone on to be stars in the league... and they had guys like Bickell not even in the lineup.

So it was really dangerous for Homer to get the idea that the 2010 Flyers and 2010 'Hawks were pretty close... in actuality, they were miles apart.
- Tomahawk

Could you elaborate on that 'dangerous to get the idea' part?

It was all about depth... 'Hawks had an abundance of up-and-coming young legs... the Flyers had to sacrifice some forward depth in the Pronger trade and young depth guys like Upshall and Umberger were previously sacrificed due to cap reasons. And of course, having a third d pairing where both players have proved to be much less than NHL players (in Parent's case, fringe even in the AHL as it turns out), was a huge impediment.
- Tomahawk

I still can't believe how far the Flyers were able to get with Parent and Krajicek as a 3rd pairing, although Pronger and a 35 yr old Kimmo certainly helps

Could you elaborate on that 'dangerous to get the idea' part?
- BulliesPhan87

Best example is going out and getting a Bryzgalov because you think you're really one piece away.

Or a Mez/SOD away, or a Nik Zherdev away.

Their focus should have been on replenishing the long-term depth of the organization to recover from the Pronger trade, with an eye on making another serious run in another 1-2 seasons. Instead, they got impatient and we are all too familar with the results of that.

Best example is going out and getting a Bryzgalov because you think you're really one piece away.

Or a Mez/SOD away, or a Nik Zherdev away.

Their focus should have been on replenishing the long-term depth of the organization to recover from the Pronger trade, with an eye on making another serious run in another 1-2 seasons. Instead, they got impatient and we are all too familar with the results of that.
- Tomahawk

Iunno, I don't think it was a bad idea to try and keep a good thing going. In the mindset at the time, namely that Richard/Carter/Pronger/Giroux are the core that just got you to the cusp, getting Mez and SOD at the cost of just a second rounder (and small cash in FA) doesn't seem like a bad move. The Zherdev experiment didn't cost anything to attempt, either. If anything, the net transmutation of a first rounder into a second rounder to borrow Versteeg did more to harm the pipeline.

The Bryzgalov contract was a massive mistake in its own right.

According to Bill's tweet, Mesz is sitting again tomorrow:

Looks like Meszaros will remain a healthy scratch tomorrow. Skating with Gill as partner in practice.

I want to see Holmgren get a second round pick for Meszaros.

Meszaros is a better player than Pavel Kubina, and he fetched a second round pick.

I guess the problem is, Holmgren can't trade Meszaros to the Flyers.
- PLindbergh31

Let's hope he doesn't try to draft the next Zac Rinaldo in the early rounds of the draft. My god that was a boneheaded move unless that kid becomes more than they expect of him. If your worried that you won't get a 6th round talent in the 5th round because you don't have a 4th round pick, then don't trade it away.

According to Bill's tweet, Mesz is sitting again tomorrow:
- Raven728

Does anyone know/remember why Mesz's contract was backloaded? It just seems very oddball and very unHolmgrenlike.

Does anyone know/remember why Mesz's contract was backloaded? It just seems very oddball and very unHolmgrenlike.
- Flyers_01

I don't believe that contract was crafted by Holmgren, he was already signed to it when we traded for him.

EDIT: Signed in 2008-09, with the Lightning.

This team has it all wrong. They should be doing this next season for a chance at Connor McDavid...
- Jimmygrazz

who says they can't do it next year, too?

I don't believe that contract was crafted by Holmgren, he was already signed to it when we traded for him.
- BulliesPhan87

Ah, yes. Tampa. Unlike the Flyers they were trying to keep the payroll down in real $$$ rather than Cap $$.

Not sure if Bill has mentioned this yet but Ghost and Union have played two games so far this season. Ghost went pointless in first game's 3-3 tie with Bowling Green and posted 3 assists in second game's 5-2 win, also over Bowling Green. Hope he continues to put up numbers.

Poll: will the flyers win another game this month

I don't believe that contract was crafted by Holmgren, he was already signed to it when we traded for him.
- BulliesPhan87

Yeah, that was a Brian Lawton/OK Hockey LLC special.