Not true. They absolutely need role players. They're on the roster because you need players like that in those roles, who do what they do well. Role players are very important players on a team, and they contribute to winning.
- MJL

This is your opinion. One which I disagree with.

this sounds like something i would post. care to elaborate?
- hammarby31

just one of those days.....been a philly fan for 40 years and just tired of poop not working out. like the eagles' pick: i would love to think "this guy will be a stud" but then i remember the 9 million picks that didn't work out. i can totally see morin turning in to a glorified hal gill, but one that takes 20,000 penalties a game.....frustrated.....just (frank)ing frustrated

And the game is always evolving.

But, in terms of analytics (which you're once again misrepresenting), it's a not about a change in the game. It's a change in how people view the game. It's about finding statistical advantages to increase the probability of winning a game.
- bradleyc4

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I think this idea that teams don't need role players, is proof positive. Statistical advantages don't increase the probability of winning a game. More proof. Players increase the probability of winning a game. Role players doing the dirty work such as winning a key faceoff on the PK. Blocking a shot or winning a puck battle on the PK, checking against key offensive players on the opposition. All qualities that good role players bring to the ice, increase the probability of winning. things that don't show up statistically, contribute to winning games. Heart and soul that some role players bring to a team, that can't be measured statistically, contribute to winning games. It's a shame how the game has come down to statistics on a website for some.

It you don't think statistical analysis is used in all facets of life -- war, space exploration, economics, everything -- you should consider opening your eyes a little more.
- bradleyc4

Who has said that statistical analysis isn't used in all facets of life?

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I think this idea that teams don't need role players, is proof positive. Statistical advantages don't increase the probability of winning a game. More proof. Players increase the probability of winning a game. Role players doing the dirty work such as winning a key faceoff on the PK. Blocking a shot or winning a puck battle on the PK, checking against key offensive players on the opposition. All qualities that good role players bring to the ice, increase the probability of winning. things that don't show up statistically, contribute to winning games. Heart and soul that some role players bring to a team, that can't be measured statistically, contribute to winning games. It's a shame how the game has come down to statistics on a website for some.
- MJL

Once again, a misrepresentation.

Not one person believes it's a game of statistics. It's only a tool to help find advantages.

Hey, if some people want a "positionally sound" defender who plays a big role in keeping his team hemmed in the defensive zone for minutes a time, who am I to tell them they can't have these things?
- bradleyc4

You're a generous soul.

Once again, a misrepresentation.

Not one person believes it's a game of statistics. It's only a tool to help find advantages.
- bradleyc4

And I don't think anyone thinks there should be no role players. But the roles they play need to be hockey roles.

Once again, a misrepresentation.

Not one person believes it's a game of statistics. It's only a tool to help find advantages.
- bradleyc4

When players are labeled as good or bad players, based on statistics alone. And qualities that players bring to the ice, are labeled as not necessary, based on statistics, and statistics only, there is a problem. And a lot is being missed.

I think Brad Marsh and Paul Stewart, two guys who have been around the game for a long time said it best.

"At the risk of co-opting what Paul Stewart wrote yesterday, I am not a huge fan of all the new-age statistics that have taken over the game. Too many folks base their opinions on stats and now there is a stat for everything and many of these new stats obscure the picture TEAM picture of what's going on in a game.

Really, the only stat that means anything -- especially this time of year -- is wins and losses.

I get that the fan base needs to vent and the media has to sell newspapers or generate clicks for their Web sites. I enjoy participating in the debates, too. But you will never get me to buy into an argument that the Senators won't make the playoffs (and this just a hypothetical example) specifically because of where Chris Phillips or some other player or two fall on some statistical spreadsheet chart that takes their job on the ice out of context."

Brad Marsh



"As for the "advanced stats revolution" in hockey, I admit I am still proudly old-school in my beliefs. Until the end result of a hockey game -- right up to the deciding game of the Stanley Cup Finals -- is measured by puck possession time rather than which team actually converts more scoring chances and lets fewer pucks into their own net, the so-called revolution will always be of secondary importance. "

Paul Stewart

Yep, right about where I figured the discussion would be.

just one of those days.....been a philly fan for 40 years and just tired of poop not working out. like the eagles' pick: i would love to think "this guy will be a stud" but then i remember the 9 million picks that didn't work out. i can totally see morin turning in to a glorified hal gill, but one that takes 20,000 penalties a game.....frustrated.....just (frank)ing frustrated
- hogweed

and then msl's mom dies and it all kind of becomes meaningless.

"Analytics is where we're going. I'm very interested in it. It's very intriguing. Why I have an analytical mind I have no idea, but I do. You can't overvalue it, but in my mind, it's going to become more and more and more valuable."

Ron Hextall, Flyers GM.

“I think it's better, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. It's also a competitive advantage. That stuff's readily available, but what we have is more proprietary. Which is why I'm really trying not to talk about it. I think what we do gives us an advantage over other teams. They might say I'm wrong, but we're pretty confident that what we have works.”

-Stan Bowman, Stanley Cup winning GM, Chicago Blackhawks

"I was thinking about a lot of this stuff even before Moneyball came out. It requires almost a cultural change, to get your staff thinking a certain way, and that's what we're working toward.

“We've put a lot of time and thought into this, and now we're going to see if it works. This is one of those things where we're going to end up going down paths that don't work. But we're going to find the right one, and we're not going to get frustrated along the way.”

-Dean Lombardi, Stanley Cup winning GM, LA Kings

It you don't think statistical analysis is used in all facets of life -- war, space exploration, economics, everything -- you should consider opening your eyes a little more.
- bradleyc4

I think Emery had a real positive influence on Mason. If Emery moves on it is possible we see the old Mason we do not want to see. It would be wise to try and resign him.

I think Emery had a real positive influence on Mason. If Emery moves on it is possible we see the old Mason we do not want to see. It would be wise to try and resign him.
- flyerdude17

What is Emery's CORSI of positive words directed at Mason compared to negative words directed at Mason? Adjusted for tone, sarcasm, and humor, of course.

just one of those days.....been a philly fan for 40 years and just tired of poop not working out. like the eagles' pick: i would love to think "this guy will be a stud" but then i remember the 9 million picks that didn't work out. i can totally see morin turning in to a glorified hal gill, but one that takes 20,000 penalties a game.....frustrated.....just (frank)ing frustrated
- hogweed

i hear you, man. this is one reason i feel blessed to still be able to play hockey at a high level - it lets met get my frustrations out - it's something I can control. I had a great game last night, and it carried over today to pick up hockey. they just couldn't score on me. it's such a great feeling and helps me escape the annoying things going on in my life, like the flyers not being the playoffs.

Yep, right about where I figured the discussion would be.
- tangent_man

I think Emery had a real positive influence on Mason. If Emery moves on it is possible we see the old Mason we do not want to see. It would be wise to try and resign him.
- flyerdude17

They did have a good relationship, and Mason has said that he'd like to see Emery come back, but with the Flyers cap situation, it might not be feasible. If you can get a solid guy like Al Montoya for half the price, you might have no choice.

Let's not forget, that during the lockout shortened season, Mason won the Columbus goalie job coming out of camp and played solidly, until he got hurt. Then Bobrovsky caught fire and Mason couldn't get the net back.

He's much more mature and has a far better relationship with the coaching staff here than he did in Columbus, especially under Scott Arneil.

i hear you, man. this is one reason i feel blessed to still be able to play hockey at a high level - it lets met get my frustrations out - it's something I can control. I had a great game last night, and it carried over today to pick up hockey. they just couldn't score on me. it's such a great feeling and helps me escape the annoying things going on in my life, like the flyers not being the playoffs.
- hammarby31

speaking of which, what are you doing for mom? do i need to order flowers yet?

I think Emery had a real positive influence on Mason. If Emery moves on it is possible we see the old Mason we do not want to see. It would be wise to try and resign him.
- flyerdude17

except when mason gets hurt and we give games away maybe

"Analytics is where we're going. I'm very interested in it. It's very intriguing. Why I have an analytical mind I have no idea, but I do. You can't overvalue it, but in my mind, it's going to become more and more and more valuable."

Ron Hextall, Flyers GM.

“I think it's better, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. It's also a competitive advantage. That stuff's readily available, but what we have is more proprietary. Which is why I'm really trying not to talk about it. I think what we do gives us an advantage over other teams. They might say I'm wrong, but we're pretty confident that what we have works.”

-Stan Bowman, Stanley Cup winning GM, Chicago Blackhawks

"I was thinking about a lot of this stuff even before Moneyball came out. It requires almost a cultural change, to get your staff thinking a certain way, and that's what we're working toward.

“We've put a lot of time and thought into this, and now we're going to see if it works. This is one of those things where we're going to end up going down paths that don't work. But we're going to find the right one, and we're not going to get frustrated along the way.”

-Dean Lombardi, Stanley Cup winning GM, LA Kings
- Jsaquella

Nobody is saying that analytics don't have value, or shouldn't be a tool that should be used by teams. It's nothing new. Analytics have been used by teams in one form or another for decades. Roger Neilson used analytic's in the 70's. It's not using them that is the issue, it's the misuse of them. And being used out of context. And we see it time and time again. And I seriously doubt that teams are logging on to extraskater or behindthenet, and using it as the main ingredient in rating or scouting players. But that is done here time and time again. And given far too much weight in forming opinions on players.
The bottom line with the analytics that are on those websites, is that while they're the best that we may have available to us at this point. They're still badly flawed, to the point where they aren't reliable to use as the main focus on evaluating players.

- wilsonecho91

saved me the energy of laughing. thanks.

speaking of which, what are you doing for mom? do i need to order flowers yet?
- wilsonecho91

i don't (frank)ing know. joce and i will figure it out tonight and let you know.

i don't (frank)ing know. joce and i will figure it out tonight and let you know.
- hammarby31

please do. we all know what happens when something like this is missed.

They did have a good relationship, and Mason has said that he'd like to see Emery come back, but with the Flyers cap situation, it might not be feasible. If you can get a solid guy like Al Montoya for half the price, you might have no choice.

Let's not forget, that during the lockout shortened season, Mason won the Columbus goalie job coming out of camp and played solidly, until he got hurt. Then Bobrovsky caught fire and Mason couldn't get the net back.

He's much more mature and has a far better relationship with the coaching staff here than he did in Columbus, especially under Scott Arneil.
- Jsaquella

Montoya is probably the best option overall. He is capable of being a number one in my books but he is satisfied being a career backup it seems. He is a great team player and is actually better than Emery. I think someone will sign him on day one of free agency.

please do. we all know what happens when something like this is missed.
- wilsonecho91

we won't miss it. we're taking her oot on sundee. not to worry.