I think that Grossmann is better then Murray.
- MJL

ive watched a fair bit of both, and i would say this is accurate.

murray can wreck people from time to time, but to me thats overrated. when he is out of position, he literally has 0 chance of getting back into it. he often god in fleurys own way on the PK simply because he was too slow to move out of the way and while grossmann might not be passing like doughty anytime soon, he can at least make a decent chip off the boards from time to time. murray should never handle the puck.

given the choice between the two, id take grossmann in a heartbeat. and i believe you guys got him cheaper to boot.

I was thinking Montreal resembled the Flyers a bit when Murray was on the ice, with their struggles to clear the D zone.
- Marc D

i really do believe that those types of defenders are slowly, if not already, beginning to be phased out of the league. defense will become more about positioning, stick work, the ability to disrupt passing lanes, and then the ability to skate quickly towards loose pucks and accurately send it the other way.

those big lumberers to "clear the crease", are going to struggle to do those things.

I was thinking Montreal resembled the Flyers a bit when Murray was on the ice, with their struggles to clear the D zone.
- Marc D

Hey, if some people want a "positionally sound" defender who plays a big role in keeping his team hemmed in the defensive zone for minutes a time, who am I to tell them they can't have these things?

Trouba looks great out there for team USA.

Where is JvR?
- Marc D

He always looks great.

ive watched a fair bit of both, and i would say this is accurate.

murray can wreck people from time to time, but to me thats overrated. when he is out of position, he literally has 0 chance of getting back into it. he often god in fleurys own way on the PK simply because he was too slow to move out of the way and while grossmann might not be passing like doughty anytime soon, he can at least make a decent chip off the boards from time to time. murray should never handle the puck.

given the choice between the two, id take grossmann in a heartbeat. and i believe you guys got him cheaper to boot.
- stayinthefnnet

I believe they got him for the same price. 2 second rounders. They had every intention of re-signing him and they did though.

Edit: They had some extra 2nd rounders from the Carter/Richards deals.

Flyers rarely trade picks for rentals.

I believe they got him for the same price. 2 second rounders. They had every intention of re-signing him and they did though.

Edit: They had some extra 2nd rounders from the Carter/Richards deals.

Flyers rarely trade picks for rentals.
- PhillySportsGuy

more plunder from those richards/carter heist jobs

What are the chances we move Hartnell or Lecavlier for Ehrhoff? Does anyone think this possible?

I would think Lecavlier more so then Hartnell, but I think Buffalo would be intrigued by either player.

What are the chances we move Hartnell or Lecavlier for Ehrhoff? Does anyone think this possible?

I would think Lecavlier more so then Hartnell, but I think Buffalo would be intrigued by either player.
- mochoson

Ehrhoff's contract is long but not bad by any means. I don't see Buffalo taking either Vinny or Hartnell for him.

Ehrhoff's contract is long but not bad by any means. I don't see Buffalo taking either Vinny or Hartnell for him.
- five4fighting10

They have almost no center depth and will need vets to help their inevitably young roster compete.

I could honestly see either of them going there and becoming captain, as farfetched an idea that may sound.

What are the chances we move Hartnell or Lecavlier for Ehrhoff? Does anyone think this possible?

I would think Lecavlier more so then Hartnell, but I think Buffalo would be intrigued by either player.
- mochoson

ehrhoff stil has a good game going. his deal is long still, but the cap hit is pretty low. and a lot of his money has been paid out already. i imagine buffalo still values him a good bit for those reasons, and his ability to be the steady veteran among their crop of kids

They have almost no center depth and will need vets to help their inevitably young roster compete.

I could honestly see either of them going there and becoming captain, as farfetched an idea that may sound.
- mochoson

Maybe they would take Vinny or Hartnell, but not for Ehrhoff. First you'd have to get either player to waive their NMC/NTC then eat some cap hit. Even after that, you'd be lucky getting back a mid-round draft pick or decent prospect for them in my eyes.

It's debatable.
- bradleyc4

Maybe, but I'll take Grossmann. It terms of mobilty, Murray makes Grossmann look like a thouroughbred.

i really do believe that those types of defenders are slowly, if not already, beginning to be phased out of the league. defense will become more about positioning, stick work, the ability to disrupt passing lanes, and then the ability to skate quickly towards loose pucks and accurately send it the other way.

those big lumberers to "clear the crease", are going to struggle to do those things.
- stayinthefnnet

I think there is always going to be a need for physical stay at home, positionally sound, shot blocking, role playing defenseman in this league.

What are the chances we move Hartnell or Lecavlier for Ehrhoff? Does anyone think this possible?
- mochoson

Ehrhoff is still a good player and Buffalo get hit with a $10m cap penalty if they trade him and he retires with one year left on his deal. They should keep him and work in the young dmen around him and Myers.

Hey, if some people want a "positionally sound" defender who plays a big role in keeping his team hemmed in the defensive zone for minutes a time, who am I to tell them they can't have these things?
- bradleyc4

It's a team game.

Maybe they would take Vinny or Hartnell, but not for Ehrhoff. First you'd have to get either player to waive their NMC/NTC then eat some cap hit. Even after that, you'd be lucky getting back a mid-round draft pick or decent prospect for them in my eyes.
- five4fighting10

You'll get way more than that. Your undervaluing them both big time. Productive top-9 forwards dont just fall from the sky.

And you are definitely right with Ehrhoff and his money being front loaded. So maybe the Flyers eat some of Lecavlier or Hartnells salary, I still think that trade can be done straight up. All 3 players were talking about here are still very productive and experienced vets.

You'll get way more than that. Your undervaluing them both big time. Productive top-9 forwards dont just fall from the sky.

And you are definitely right with Ehrhoff and his money being front loaded. So many the Flyers eat some of Lecavlier or Hartnells salary, I still think that trade can be done straight up. All 3 players were talking about here are still very productive and experienced vets.
- mochoson

I hope I'm wrong, but when dealing with older top-9 players with NMC/NTC versus younger top-9 players, very rarely do you get the good return you expect. Other teams know why you want to move them. Neither player's cap hit is too bad, but the length of the deals and their obvious decline is what hurts their value. I still think Vinny can perform when put on the right team in the right role, but man Hartnell is slow as molasses out there. Crazy thing is when he's on, you don't want to move Hartnell. But for those other 70 games, ugh.

They have almost no center depth and will need vets to help their inevitably young roster compete.

I could honestly see either of them going there and becoming captain, as farfetched an idea that may sound.
- mochoson

0%

Signing Callahan makes all the sense in the world for Buffalo. He's a captain, top 6 player who is great two-ways. I think he's from the Buffalo area as well.

Buffalo wouldn't take VL or Hartnell for free let alone for Ehrhoff.

0%

Signing Callahan makes all the sense in the world for Buffalo. He's a captain, top 6 player who is great two-ways. I think he's from the Buffalo area as well.

Buffalo wouldn't take VL or Hartnell for free let alone for Ehrhoff.
- PhillySportsGuy

C'mon now.... the Hartnell, Leino line could get back together... I bet they'd trade us Leino for either VL or Hartnell...

0%

Signing Callahan makes all the sense in the world for Buffalo. He's a captain, top 6 player who is great two-ways. I think he's from the Buffalo area as well.

Buffalo wouldn't take VL or Hartnell for free let alone for Ehrhoff.
- PhillySportsGuy

Not sure about the free part, but with the premium on defenseman around the league, I think they can do better for Ehrhoff. Besides, I think they'd be looking for youth.

C'mon now.... the Hartnell, Leino line could get back together... I bet they'd trade us Leino for either VL or Hartnell...

- FlyersGrace

It was only 3 years ago that that line was amazing for the Flyers. Now, you can't give those guys away.

I still think Hartnell has value. I just think his contract length would scare teams. I still believe he would be moveable if he waived his NTC.

I dont know any team that wants to touch Leino or Briere with a 10 mile stick.

Not sure about the free part, but with the premium on defenseman around the league, I think they can do better for Ehrhoff. Besides, I think they'd be looking for youth.
- MJL

I dont see why Buffalo would want aging vets like Hartnell and VL. If they want veterans, they can just sign some this offseason.

C'mon now.... the Hartnell, Leino line could get back together... I bet they'd trade us Leino for either VL or Hartnell...

- FlyersGrace

Leino is going to be a buy out.

Even read some rumors that Umberger will be bought out too.

Leino is going to be a buy out.

Even read some rumors that Umberger will be bought out too.
- Marc D

Everyone wants Leino's agent

Where is JvR?
- Marc D

Probably in a coop somewhere, looking for another pigeon to mate with.

/nods at Clode