Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Richards and Carter Revisited, Recalling Shero "Trade"

I wouldn't take back those Richie/Carts trades even if I could. I'm still rooting for those 2 to hoist the cup again. Simmonds has become my favorite player on the current team. Jake, Couts, and Schenn were quite a haul. About the only negative is we didn't get back a solid defensemen which we could have used in retrospect.

The ONLY trade in the last 5-6 years I'd take back is the JVR for Luke deal, even though I know why it was made.

Shero only lasted until the early part of the 1980-81 season with the Rangers. They got off to a bad start, the players revolted against him behind the scenes and Craig Patrick was brought in, he moved upstairs and Herb Brooks was hired to coach the following year.

Rangers changed coaches way too often in those days

I wouldn't take back those Richie/Carts trades even if I could. I'm still rooting for those 2 to hoist the cup again. Simmonds has become my favorite player on the current team. Jake, Couts, and Schenn were quite a haul. About the only negative is we didn't get back a solid defensemen which we could have used in retrospect.

The ONLY trade in the last 5-6 years I'd take back is the JVR for Luke deal, even though I know why it was made.
- moylander

I am with you on all of this.

Riddle me this batman

if the league hadnt arranged the lottery for Kane to be a Hawk, do the Flyers win the 2010 finals with him in the lineup instead of JVR, with Giroux, Carter, Richards and Gagne. etc ???

Richards and Carter are long gone. I watch them play because I watch a lot of hockey, not for any hate/love deal.

To be honest, I'd do those trades again, without hesitation -- those were great hockey trades. It doesn't matter what the other guy does, as long as your franchise receives equal or better value in return.

Flyers could be right there in two seasons, with a little luck, patience, proper development and another good draft class for depth, while avoiding a ridiculous FA contract this offseason.

I have consistently said they are about two years behind the Rangers, and I still believe that.

Patience, folks. The Flyers' time is coming, if we don't do anything stupid.

I think that was the perfect summation on the debate. It was done without bias and stuck to the known facts. Good for Carter and Richards. I like the players they got in the trades. Flyers time will come.

Initially, it was a shock to trade those two, especially after Carter signed that 11 yr deal.

Now, I wouldn't take those trades back. I think they got some very good pieces in return.

Thanks for the analysis Bill!

I love the trades too. It's doubtful you have the same forward depth if those deals weren't done.

Both were great trades by the Flyers!. Too many idiots think the Flyers traded Carter to L.A. because they're bandwagon jumpers, or trolls, just looking to whine about something. Richards is a 4th line center in L.A. and we got Schenn,Simmonds and a 2nd round pick for him. Richards has a whopping 117 regular season points in 3 years for L.A., Simmonds ALONE has 141 regular season points!!!! Spare me any crap about the Flyers losing the trades! Richards and Carter were cocky and immature, who wouldn't dedicate themselves. Richards specifically turned into a whining baby with the media. Jeff Carter has exactly how many points since leaving philly? Yep, the same as Richards, 117 regular season points and Voracek alone has 157 !. I do those trades over and over again!

Both were great trades by the Flyers!. Too many idiots think the Flyers traded Carter to L.A. because they're bandwagon jumpers, or trolls, just looking to whine about something. Richards is a 4th line center in L.A. and we got Schenn,Simmonds and a 2nd round pick for him. Richards has a whopping 117 regular season points in 3 years for L.A., Simmonds ALONE has 141 regular season points!!!! Spare me any crap about the Flyers losing the trades! Richards and Carter were cocky and immature, who wouldn't dedicate themselves. Richards specifically turned into a whining baby with the media. Jeff Carter has exactly how many points since leaving philly? Yep, the same as Richards, 117 regular season points and Voracek alone has 157 !. I do those trades over and over again!
- twpguy

More to Hockey then just points. One thing I like about what Bill wrote, is he made his point without trying to lessen the role that Richards and Carter have in LA. Or blow any of the nonsense that was written about them here, out of proportion. Richards averaged over 15 minutes a game in the playoffs this year. And spent most of game 7 last night playing on Carter's wing. He's not a 4th line center.

I think that was the perfect summation on the debate. It was done without bias and stuck to the known facts. Good for Carter and Richards. I like the players they got in the trades. Flyers time will come.
- MJL

Agreed. I am getting sick of this argument all the time. I Want to have a copy of this handy to pull out whenever needed.

weren't they both almost traded to Columbus together in a package deal?

Richards and Carter are long gone. I watch them play because I watch a lot of hockey, not for any hate/love deal.

To be honest, I'd do those trades again, without hesitation -- those were great hockey trades. It doesn't matter what the other guy does, as long as your franchise receives equal or better value in return.

Flyers could be right there in two seasons, with a little luck, patience, proper development and another good draft class for depth, while avoiding a ridiculous FA contract this offseason.

I have consistently said they are about two years behind the Rangers, and I still believe that.

Patience, folks. The Flyers' time is coming, if we don't do anything stupid.
- AllInForFlyers

Patience for 40 years and counting

"I have never been one to judge a trade based on whether the other team benefits from the deal. I care only if my side benefits from it. I am of the belief that the value to the team of the combined pieces of what the Flyers brought in from the trades with Columbus and Los Angeles have more than canceled out what they dealt away".


Bill ....the above statement really points to the crux of the arguement from the Flyers side..... I am one that didn't like the trade. I was a big Richards fan....but the deal did add an influx of talent that was needed as was pointed out. The Pronger injury really set back the team and in my mind was Holmgrens un doing as a GM.....(his inability to address the teams back end....successfully) albeit not from a lack of trying.
I can also be honest, it does strike a nerve when I watch those two ex "core" guys on the verge of yet another cup.
Hopefully the Flyers address their greatest need this summer and take a step towards the ultimate goal....

Agreed. I am getting sick of this argument all the time. I Want to have a copy of this handy to pull out whenever needed.
- FlyersFirst

The Sharp trade is overblown, too. You'd think he was already a star player playing on the top line at the time of the deal, with all the crying going on over it.

Patience for 40 years and counting
- vejim

Hey, I am absolutely not arguing that -- it has been a ridiculous stretch.

Some of it's been bad luck. Some have been injuries. Some of it's been bad asset management, poor decisions that have come to roost.

Some of it's just the cost of doing business in pro sports; if you do nothing but draft and develop, you might win...but you might not. If you do nothing but attempt to buy teams, you might not win...but you might.

Right now, the Flyers have enough pieces to make me believe that they can be a serious contender in two years. I wish I didn't have to wait that long to know for sure, but at the same time, I can be patient longer -- they want to win it as badly as we do.

The Sharp trade is overblown, too. You'd think he was already a star player playing on the top line at the time of the deal, with all the crying going on over it.
- tangent_man

Exactly -- I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no one knew the guy was a consistent 30-goal scorer, otherwise he wouldn't have been drafted in the third round and certainly wouldn't have been traded for what he was.

Hindsight's always 20-20, but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference when you are making a decision in the present

The Sharp trade is overblown, too. You'd think he was already a star player playing on the top line at the time of the deal, with all the crying going on over it.
- tangent_man

How bout the Williams trade?

Hey, I am absolutely not arguing that -- it has been a ridiculous stretch.

Some of it's been bad luck. Some have been injuries. Some of it's been bad asset management, poor decisions that have come to roost.

Some of it's just the cost of doing business in pro sports; if you do nothing but draft and develop, you might win...but you might not. If you do nothing but attempt to buy teams, you might not win...but you might.

Right now, the Flyers have enough pieces to make me believe that they can be a serious contender in two years. I wish I didn't have to wait that long to know for sure, but at the same time, I can be patient longer -- they want to win it as badly as we do.
- AllInForFlyers

the younger fan base have more patience and are not frustrated by stupid management over the years

How bout the Williams trade?
- PLindbergh31

and trading #17

the younger fan base have more patience and are not frustrated by stupid management over the years
- vejim

I think everybody's felt frustration at one time or another; don't you? It's hard for anyone who's been watching for as long as you have, or myself who started in 1979.

But a more recent fan would certainly have felt frustration last year and at the start of this one, I would guess.

We're all in it together, and we all have different thresholds for pain and suffering, you know? I only want to smash things when I feel like they are going to try to win with players who are clearly not good enough, as a core, but again, right now, I'm not quite ready to say that, if they get some reinforcements and some (hoped for) player development.

How bout the Williams trade?
- PLindbergh31

That was a tougher deal, but Markov was good for them...they didn't win in 2004, so it didn't work, and yeah, that effing sucked.

But 2004...man. It didn't work. But it should've worked. They did everything, made smart moves, and did everything except win.

The Sharp trade is overblown, too. You'd think he was already a star player playing on the top line at the time of the deal, with all the crying going on over it.
- tangent_man

I guarantee the same people who complain now are the ones who advocated trading him because he wasn't producing right away.

40 year anniversary

Flyers west against the Rangers in the Cup Finals

Its great to be a Flyers fan, I wake up and thank my lucky stars each day

That was a tougher deal, but Markov was good for them...they didn't win in 2004, so it didn't work, and yeah, that effing sucked.

But 2004...man. It didn't work. But it should've worked. They did everything, made smart moves, and did everything except win.
- AllInForFlyers

Well yeah... They did everything except the only thing that matters.