Any discussion of Lecavalier and his season last year, has to consider both the injury and the position change as a big factor. If it doesn't, then it is biased.
- MJL

And if it condones his glaring blackholeness, it's also biased.

Just...ya know...

Signing Timonen to a one year deal is not going to stop the team from developing other defenseman. And if Timonen decides to retire, it's all moot.
- MJL

You're right but this worry of whether or not he returns is silly because we're back to square one one year from now. Can Morin, Hagg or Gostisbehere be ready to step into Timonen's role after next season? Probably not. I'd rather start the youth moment now.

And if it condones his glaring blackholeness, it's also biased.

Just...ya know...
- Giroux_Is_God

Every opinion I've offered on Lecavalier has included the deficiencies in his play during the season. There is no bias on my part concerning Lecavalier. One of my main points about his season is the difference in play before the injury and the position change, and after. How can I make that point if I don't acknowledge the poor play after the injury and the switch to LW? I also acknowledge and have even stated that because of what it would take for Lecavalier to re-find his game, and the type of players I think he needs to play with, that there is question if he is a fit in this lineup. And have also offered that I don't think it's a great idea for the Flyers to make roster changes to fit in a 34 year old player at this point.

You're right but this worry of whether or not he returns is silly because we're back to square one one year from now. Can Morin, Hagg or Gostisbehere be ready to step into Timonen's role after next season? Probably not. I'd rather start the youth moment now.
- SuperSchennBros

What does start the youth movement now mean? Are any of those players ready for the NHL? Or should the Flyers just throw them in the lineup even if they aren't?

Timonen

Let's say we do resign Timonen, how long do we keep resigning him beyond this season until a bonafide number one defenseman comes along and how do we aquire him? Do you still view Timonen as a ligit number one defenseman? Should Timonen play for us this season, what if he doesn't play up to the level we're all accustomed to? I thought Kimmo Timonen was our worst player in the playoffs. Not our worst defenseman, our worst player.

Lecavalier

I totally admit Lecavalier had a rough season but I'm not gonna go as far as saying that he's a bad player. To say this and simply expect him to magically disappear from our roster and on to another is asinine. Lecavalier has to be okay with both leaving and where he's going. He was expecting to possibly spend the rest of his career in Philadelphia.

So how do you expect to move Lecavalier? What lengths and effort do you feel the organization is going to in order to convince him to go? Just one year ago they were trying to convince him to come here for at least five years.

Let me ask you, what is your idea of getting Vincent Lecavalier going? What are you expect for him? Find the fountain of youth and simply tell him not to get hurt? What is the difference between Lecavalier of his past three seasons in Tampa Bay from Lecavalier from this year in Philly?
- SuperSchennBros

I don't view Kimmo as a #1. I said he's not capable of being a top pairing dman anymore. It doesn't mean he can't contribute. He may have had a rough playoff series, but he's better than every other defenseman on this team except Coburn. You'll see regressions in our other defenseman if they're forced to log those kinds of heavy minutes.

I see no reason why they can't re-sign him for one more year. He will help the team without the team having to commit more than 1 year.

If the Flyers eat $1M of Lecavalier's salary for each remaining year, I think they can move him. It would suck to have to do that, but it may be necessary.

If I am not mistaken both played on a line with 2015 top name Jack Eichel. I would prefer Larkin if they took any of the 3
- ob18

I'm leery of taking any linemates of past/future/present lottery picks... seems like there are a lot of busts who got drafted riding the coattails of superior players.

Sid got his RW from Rimouski drafted TWICE.

80085
- PhillySportsGuy

thats better!!

I would disagree that over the course of the entire season, Lecavalier made every one he played with worse. And that every line got worse. This is selective memory. And ignores how Lecavalier played before the injury and the position change. I have no problem with criticism of Lecavalier, nor do I have an issue with anyone suggesting they trade him. There are definite questions of whether he can get healthy and get back to where he was before the injury. And where he fits in the lineup, and if they have the players to compliment him. That all has merit. But this idea that he's just a PP specialist at this point, is premature. And certainly not a fact. Nor is it a fact that he is injury prone. Let's look at the facts concerning his injuries in the last 4 years. Since the 10/11 Season, he has missed 55 games, due to various injuries. 33 of those games, were due to two separate broken hand injuries. Injuries that could happen to any player, and do not point to being an injury prone player. He missed a game with a facial injury. And he missed 12 games due to minor LBI injuries. The only injury that is a concern going forward, is the back injury. So in my opinion, I think it is misleading to call him injury prone.
As far as playing him in the right spot, in the right role, and against the right matchups. That's true of the overwhelming majority of players in the NHL. And is true for many of the players on the Flyers roster. Doesn't make anyone a bad player.
I agree that having every player on the team, a solid 2 way player, would make the Flyers a better team. And I agree that is a legitimate reason for moving Lecavalier. But this idea that he is washed up, and his play on the ice was the result of just being a PP specialist, who makes every player and every line worse, while ignoring all the circumstances behind his season, is a biased and an incomplete viewpoint. And ignores the possibility that Lecavalier can come back in good shape, and stronger, and regain his game. Any unbiased opinion without prejudice has to include that possibility. How one half of a season can trump a distinguished career is mind boggling.
- MJL

When you get older, you become more susceptible to all injuries. Bones aren't as strong, muscles don't stretch as far and recoveries take longer and don't always heal to 100%. You can't just discount all injuries.

I know you acknowledged the back injury as a concern, but thats a major concern. I don't know many people who have suffered back injuries and come back later at 100%. poop, I suffered a back injury at age 18 and I'm still not the same now.

What does start the youth movement now mean? Are any of those players ready for the NHL? Or should the Flyers just throw them in the lineup even if they aren't?
- MJL

Agree 100%

There is no bias on my part concerning Lecavalier.
- MJL

I don't view Kimmo as a #1. I said he's not capable of being a top pairing dman anymore. It doesn't mean he can't contribute. He may have had a rough playoff series, but he's better than every other defenseman on this team except Coburn. You'll see regressions in our other defenseman if they're forced to log those kinds of heavy minutes.

I see no reason why they can't re-sign him for one more year. He will help the team without the team having to commit more than 1 year.

If the Flyers eat $1M of Lecavalier's salary for each remaining year, I think they can move him. It would suck to have to do that, but it may be necessary.
- PhillySportsGuy

What you're suggesting to me is in Timonen's decline, he's still better then what we have outside of Coburn. So there is nobody who can step up or be expected to take the next step like Andy MacDonald or Luke Schenn. We're never gonna know unless we try.

When you get older, you become more susceptible to all injuries. Bones aren't as strong, muscles don't stretch as far and recoveries take longer and don't always heal to 100%. You can't just discount all injuries.

I know you acknowledged the back injury as a concern, but thats a major concern. I don't know many people who have suffered back injuries and come back later at 100%. poop, I suffered a back injury at age 18 and I'm still not the same now.
- PhillySportsGuy

Pardon me son, how old are you?

Every opinion I've offered on Lecavalier has included the deficiencies in his play during the season. There is no bias on my part concerning Lecavalier. One of my main points about his season is the difference in play before the injury and the position change, and after. How can I make that point if I don't acknowledge the poor play after the injury and the switch to LW? I also acknowledge and have even stated that because of what it would take for Lecavalier to re-find his game, and the type of players I think he needs to play with, that there is question if he is a fit in this lineup. And have also offered that I don't think it's a great idea for the Flyers to make roster changes to fit in a 34 year old player at this point.
- MJL

Why would I have a bias against him? I want the Flyers to do well. I want VL to do well while he's a member of this team. I didn't like the signings of Streit or VL, but I admit Streit helped the team this year and will help them next year if Kimmo can't qb the PP.

I watched the games and analyzed the stats. That's how I came to my conclusion. I know he was injured and I know he switched positions. I took that into consideration. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm biased.

Pardon me son, how old are you?
- SuperSchennBros

84. I'm very advanced for my age.

When you get older, you become more susceptible to all injuries. Bones aren't as strong, muscles don't stretch as far and recoveries take longer and don't always heal to 100%. You can't just discount all injuries.

I know you acknowledged the back injury as a concern, but thats a major concern. I don't know many people who have suffered back injuries and come back later at 100%. poop, I suffered a back injury at age 18 and I'm still not the same now.
- PhillySportsGuy

Broken hands from getting slashed or hit with the puck, happen to players of all age, and is not an age related injury.

The back injury is certainly a concern going forward. That could become chronic, and could be from wear and tear.

What you're suggesting to me is in Timonen's decline, he's still better then what we have outside of Coburn. So there is nobody who can step up or be expected to take the next step like Andy MacDonald or Luke Schenn. We're never gonna know unless we try.
- SuperSchennBros

Amac was a disaster as a top pairing dman on the Islanders. Streit was as well.

I like Schenn, but pairing him with Coburn on the top pair is a disaster waiting to happen.

The problem with our defenseman is that they're so one dimensional. Timonen gives the team a player who can play in all situations. He may not be the all star he used to be, but at least he's adequate in all three zones. I can't say that about any other defenseman on the team.

You're right but this worry of whether or not he returns is silly because we're back to square one one year from now. Can Morin, Hagg or Gostisbehere be ready to step into Timonen's role after next season? Probably not. I'd rather start the youth moment now.
- SuperSchennBros

No one here thinks Timonen is a #1 guy anymore. And one year of him is one more year of development for Morin Hagg, Alt, and Ghost. I dont see it as being back at square one because it will be a differnt situation with different cap considerations and possibly different players available.

As long as the price is reasonable its a no brainer to bring him back for one season. As long as he wants to come back of course.

Why would I have a bias against him? I want the Flyers to do well. I want VL to do well while he's a member of this team. I didn't like the signings of Streit or VL, but I admit Streit helped the team this year and will help them next year if Kimmo can't qb the PP.

I watched the games and analyzed the stats. That's how I came to my conclusion. I know he was injured and I know he switched positions. I took that into consideration. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm biased.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't know. Why doesn't any opinion you offer on Lecavalier include the possibility that the injury and the position change were major reasons for his poor play? Pretty much every opinion you offer on Lecavalier, ignores those as factors in his season. And also ignores his solid play before the back injury.
My opinion includes the possibility that he may not ever fully recover from the back injury, and that there are questions of if he is a fit. But it also includes the possibility that he can come back stronger and bounce back. My opinion includes that Lecavalier has been a good player in this league, every season but last year. And just doesn't ignore that and only focuses on one poor overall season with mitigating factors.

I'm leery of taking any linemates of past/future/present lottery picks... seems like there are a lot of busts who got drafted riding the coattails of superior players.

Sid got his RW from Rimouski drafted TWICE.
- Tomahawk

I am not sure I'd even want Tuch or Milano........whenever I get to cutting my list down I may leave both off of it.

No one here thinks Timonen is a #1 guy anymore. And one year of him is one more year of development for Morin Hagg, Alt, and Ghost. I dont see it as being back at square one because it will be a differnt situation with different cap considerations and possibly different players available.

As long as the price is reasonable its a no brainer to bring him back for one season. As long as he wants to come back of course.
- MBFlyerfan

I know that I want Grossmann gone. That leaves 5, 22, 47. 32. If you sign 44, what are the pairings?
X-5
32-44
47-22

Amac was a disaster as a top pairing dman on the Islanders. Streit was as well.

I like Schenn, but pairing him with Coburn on the top pair is a disaster waiting to happen.

The problem with our defenseman is that they're so one dimensional. Timonen gives the team a player who can play in all situations. He may not be the all star he used to be, but at least he's adequate in all three zones. I can't say that about any other defenseman on the team.
- PhillySportsGuy

Suggesting MacDonald was a disaster as a top pair guy is premature. That role he played there might have earned him the deal he just signed

I never suggested that Schenn should be paired with Coburn as a top pair but at the same time I wouldn't rule anything out. Coburn was a really good D partner with Grossman against Malkin during the 2012 playoffs. Timonen and Schenn were solid together last season as our only reliable pair.

I don't know. Why doesn't any opinion you offer on Lecavalier include the possibility that the injury and the position change were major reasons for his poor play? Pretty much every opinion you offer on Lecavalier, ignores those as factors in his season. And also ignores his solid play before the back injury.
My opinion includes the possibility that he may not ever fully recover from the back injury, and that there are questions of if he is a fit. But it also includes the possibility that he can come back stronger and bounce back. My opinion includes that Lecavalier has been a good player in this league, every season but last year. And just doesn't ignore that and only focuses on one poor overall season with mitigating factors.
- MJL

I feel Lecavalier's early season success can be attributed to shooting a very high percentage that was unsustainable. I, also, didn't think Lecavalier was as good of a player as his regular stats indicated. I felt he had seriously regressed quite a bit since his top seasons. That's why I didn't like the signing.

For whatever reason, VL could never get going this season. He did have opportunities at center with Schenn and Simmonds. They just didn't play well together. They tried him at wing with Giroux and at wing with Couturier. He just doesn't fit with this roster.

I, also, feel Schenn is a better center than winger (Something we've always disagree on) and I feel Schenn is a better center than VL. That makes VL the 4th best center on this team and a guy who has shown he has trouble adjusting to wing.

I am not sure I'd even want Tuch or Milano........whenever I get to cutting my list down I may leave both off of it.
- ob18

I'm higher on Milano

Suggesting MacDonald was a disaster as a top pair guy is premature. That role he played there might have earned him the deal he just signed

I never suggested that Schenn should be paired with Coburn as a top pair but at the same time I wouldn't rule anything out. Coburn was a really good D partner with Grossman against Malkin during the 2012 playoffs. Timonen and Schenn were solid together last season as our only reliable pair.
- SuperSchennBros

MacDonald was awful as a top pairing guy with the Islanders. He's not a guy who can handle the burden of consistently taking on top lines.

Your second point is solid. I've always wanted Berube to go with Grossmann-Coburn, Timonen-Schenn and Streit-Mac.

What does start the youth movement now mean? Are any of those players ready for the NHL? Or should the Flyers just throw them in the lineup even if they aren't?
- MJL

Well I'm not suggesting allowing Timonen infavor for someone the same age as him.