Blanket statement....and you don't share??

Shame on you gramps.
- UnnamedSource

back read a couple of pages. It will all make sense.

Ok you are dragging me in to this Vancouver Kesler thing.

I will play.
Here's what I agree on:
Why Kesler?
Because he is a perennial Selke finalist besides a centre who has handled 2nd line duties.
The return has to cover the entire CAP. You dreamers who think Canucks are not only stripping their squad at second line centre AND going to pay for your hawks to have one? Grow up.

So some contract goes their way...whether that guy is the reason they truly are trading for. So they get a CONTRACT Sharp/Oduya, plus another centre (Kruger) and third piece that also looks to be a return as he develops.
Let's for right now USE Leddy as the third part.

THERE IS NO WAY THE BLACKHAWKS trade two rostered forwards plus a rostered defender for one centre, mostly because that is way too much openings in a line up that was already short forwards that could play regular against the Kings.
No one can tell me the losses against the Kings were because defensive breakdowns by Kruger and Sharp.

We can argue until morning what Kruger's upside is but it's clear he has improved his play and is regarded as a much better player and will want to be paid like one.
We all probably would agree that as a secondary for Kesler we would uck up the hit. No matter what his final upsides is , even if he becomes the third tougher sister, he doesn't cover the Cap return so someone else goes if you want Kesler so bad.

Now if you were to deal Bickell and Kruger and the potential of Johns, I think you fit the criteria fron the Canuck end but again I don't see the hawks willing to deal Kruger and Bickell simply because now you subtracted more of that four rolling lines to and no matter if you find two pluggers for Sharp to replace them you are still talking chemistry lesson gone awry....

Too me it simply doesn't work...they want Seabrook one up.

And whether you agree or disagree that Spezza's availabilty changes the market, you want both offense and defense from the guy if you MUST GET A PREMIER GUY.

You could give Vancouver everyone in our system born in the BC Province....but you still have to figure away for the offset the FIVE MILLION Kesler makes....forget about Spezza and SEVEN million he gets and have NEVER earned.

and why would the Canucks simply take on "a veteran contract" unless the pot is so sweet and the pressure by kesler is so intense that they succumb to a Cap return replacement part in Sharp that is three years older, and two years longer in contract than Kesler's.

To do that they MUST get some real upside...
and that is where my head starts exploding....

I done trying to do it...I will wait to see what is actually attempted at this point because it simply doesn't work....

[quote=UnnamedSource]

You want a Toews/hossa lite or a contact hit of 5.5 million which is a hit the Hawks cant take on - maybe next season but beyond that....

It's just not a stupid movie but a financially horrible move. Even if their was no cap I still wouldn't do the deal.

You would deal Saad in a deal for Kesler?


I don't think I would trade Saad straight up for Kesler.
- Tazer19

Saad? Where is all this saad talk coming from? We were talking about Sharp I thought. I would not trade Saad.

Saad? Where is all this saad talk coming from? We were talking about Sharp I thought. I would not trade Saad.
- tomcat24

Hey TC! Thought he had that wrong.

Ok you are dragging me in to this Vancouver Kesler thing.

I will play.
Here's what I agree on:
Why Kesler?
Because he is a perennial Selke finalist besides a centre who has handled 2nd line duties.
The return has to cover the entire CAP. You dreamers who think Canucks are not only stripping their squad at second line centre AND going to pay for your hawks to have one? Grow up.

So some contract goes their way...whether that guy is the reason they truly are trading for. So they get a CONTRACT Sharp/Oduya, plus another centre (Kruger) and third piece that also looks to be a return as he develops.
Let's for right now USE Leddy as the third part.

THERE IS NO WAY THE BLACKHAWKS trade two rostered forwards plus a rostered defender for one centre, mostly because that is way too much openings in a line up that was already short forwards that could play regular against the Kings.
No one can tell me the losses against the Kings were because defensive breakdowns by Kruger and Sharp.

We can argue until morning what Kruger's upside is but it's clear he has improved his play and is regarded as a much better player and will want to be paid like one.
We all probably would agree that as a secondary for Kesler we would uck up the hit. No matter what his final upsides is , even if he becomes the third tougher sister, he doesn't cover the Cap return so someone else goes if you want Kesler so bad.

Now if you were to deal Bickell and Kruger and the potential of Johns, I think you fit the criteria fron the Canuck end but again I don't see the hawks willing to deal Kruger and Bickell simply because now you subtracted more of that four rolling lines to and no matter if you find two pluggers for Sharp to replace them you are still talking chemistry lesson gone awry....

Too me it simply doesn't work...they want Seabrook one up.

And whether you agree or disagree that Spezza's availabilty changes the market, you want both offense and defense from the guy if you MUST GET A PREMIER GUY.

You could give Vancouver everyone in our system born in the BC Province....but you still have to figure away for the offset the FIVE MILLION Kesler makes....forget about Spezza and SEVEN million he gets and have NEVER earned.

and why would the Canucks simply take on "a veteran contract" unless the pot is so sweet and the pressure by kesler is so intense that they succumb to a Cap return replacement part in Sharp that is three years older, and two years longer in contract than Kesler's.

To do that they MUST get some real upside...
and that is where my head starts exploding....

I done trying to do it...I will wait to see what is actually attempted at this point because it simply doesn't work....
- wiz1901

This. All of this.

Agreed...on all of it. Cue the applause. Vermette, if available, makes a lot of sense and likely upgrades the 2C -- or at a minimum down through the roster at C.

I'm also in no hurry to trade away TT until we find out if he can live up to the hype. If he can, surround him with some size and go forth and conquer. Gamebreakers-- just like big, fast, skilled forwards aren't easy to come by.
- grinder10

I have no problems using TT to get a guy who makes them better right now. The Hawks don't exactly have a strong track record drafting non-Swedes in the international market. Add in his draft position and the odds of him being a gamebreaker are low, IMO. He isn't a guy who will lead a team to a Cup. So I don't think losing him is anything Hawk fans will regret for years.

You've read them or is that a question?
- HawkintheD

I haven't read the books, but I like to check out this Fire and Ice Wiki and I've read ahead on a few of the characters. Mostly the Lannisters.

You want a Toews/hossa lite or a contact hit of 5.5 million which is a hit the Hawks cant take on - maybe next season but beyond that....

It's just not a stupid movie but a financially horrible move. Even if their was no cap I still wouldn't do the deal.
- Tazer19

sup' Hank?

Ok you are dragging me in to this Vancouver Kesler thing.

I will play.
Here's what I agree on:
Why Kesler?
Because he is a perennial Selke finalist besides a centre who has handled 2nd line duties.

To do that they MUST get some real upside...
and that is where my head starts exploding....

I done trying to do it...I will wait to see what is actually attempted at this point because it simply doesn't work....
- wiz1901

I like your logic here Wiz, but what about rumors swirling about that Kane has all but demanded Kessler? Do you think that Stan will move heaven, earth and a couple of players to make 88 happy?

2 7
4 27
Dahlbeck UFA (younger than Rozy)
Runblad

Keep top 4 together and upgrade Rozy with the cap space
- reeder16

How does someone like boyle sound to platoon with Dahlbeck? He has expressed an interest in winning. If we could get him to sign for a decent number would he be worth it?

Sure...but like Brookbank any FA signing will be without fanfare or someone who is a free agent with a week or two to go before camp.
- UnnamedSource

I'm talking about a mid-salary range free agent that improves the team without spending real large. Brookbank types are spare tires looking to catch on somewhere.

But after Stanbow fell in love with Steve Montador, maybe Rocky and MacD took his free agent checkbook away from him permanently.

How does someone like boyle sound to platoon with Dahlbeck? He has expressed an interest in winning. If we could get him to sign for a decent number would he be worth it?
- 50_Thoos

He wants a 2 year deal. And he will want too much money. Pass.

If you agree or disagree - please don't use memes - explain why you disagree or agree.
- Tazer19

I disagree with your assessment because it's not well thought out and seems to be short sighted...

First off...the Hawks have no one in the system with Bickels size/Skating ability/heavy shot.....yes he had an unproductive season which could be blamed for coming back to soon from knee surgery and he may have re-injured the knee when he crashed into the net.....Jimmy Hayes does not compare...and all I need to say to that is skating abilty + hawks quick transition game = failure....and that's why he is a Florida Panther.

Second...the Hawks have to many prospects??? Really???...and this is a problem?? All relative to the Hawks core is they do not need anymore scoring....they need bottom six and to become stronger up the middle. Players like Nordstrom, Danault, McNeil, Hartman, Hayes (possibly) have been pegged by the franchise to fill those roles/positions in the next few years.....will all of them contribute..NO....will 2 or three of them yes....why is this important to build from within and not go out fill out your bottom six with FA's? Because you will not be able to sustain success by doing so....the Hawks have two major players in need of extensions....Saad will have a big contract sooner or later......Kruger may stay because he fills a vital role and is consistent.....where is the money going to come from????....hence why the players outside your core need to be developed from within...Because the CORE COST A LOT OF MONEY!

Third....you're acting as if it's a guarantee the Nucks send 50% of Keslers salary the Hawks way....Why??? Why would they have to do this???......They don't need to!!


Finally TT....yes TT has huge upside...but he is still in the infant stages of development....lots of variables...lots of moving parts....let's hope for the Hawks sake he is half of what you think he will be.....Your thoughts remind of Cub fans who thought Felix Pie was the next Willie Mays......where is he today???

I have no problems using TT to get a guy who makes them better right now. The Hawks don't exactly have a strong track record drafting non-Swedes in the international market. Add in his draft position and the odds of him being a gamebreaker are low, IMO. He isn't a guy who will lead a team to a Cup. So I don't think losing him is anything Hawk fans will regret for years.
- Elbows15

I disagree.

Teravainen might be the only prospect with a huge offensive skill that this team sees for a long time. You just can't give that away. As much as I love Danault and McNeill, I'd sooner give up one of those two then flipping Teravainen off in a trade.

Draft position aside, which doesn't mean all that much, the talent that this kid has shouldn't be overlooked.

Hey TC! Thought he had that wrong.
- HawkintheD

nobody is untouchable. But Saad is getting there. He is going to have a huge year

How does someone like boyle sound to platoon with Dahlbeck? He has expressed an interest in winning. If we could get him to sign for a decent number would he be worth it?
- 50_Thoos

If...Leddy were traded, and Boyle were to come in for CHEAP, then I could see this working for a season.

Ok you are dragging me in to this Vancouver Kesler thing.

I will play.
Here's what I agree on:
Why Kesler?
Because he is a perennial Selke finalist besides a centre who has handled 2nd line duties.
The return has to cover the entire CAP. You dreamers who think Canucks are not only stripping their squad at second line centre AND going to pay for your hawks to have one? Grow up.

So some contract goes their way...whether that guy is the reason they truly are trading for. So they get a CONTRACT Sharp/Oduya, plus another centre (Kruger) and third piece that also looks to be a return as he develops.
Let's for right now USE Leddy as the third part.

THERE IS NO WAY THE BLACKHAWKS trade two rostered forwards plus a rostered defender for one centre, mostly because that is way too much openings in a line up that was already short forwards that could play regular against the Kings.
No one can tell me the losses against the Kings were because defensive breakdowns by Kruger and Sharp.

We can argue until morning what Kruger's upside is but it's clear he has improved his play and is regarded as a much better player and will want to be paid like one.
We all probably would agree that as a secondary for Kesler we would uck up the hit. No matter what his final upsides is , even if he becomes the third tougher sister, he doesn't cover the Cap return so someone else goes if you want Kesler so bad.

Now if you were to deal Bickell and Kruger and the potential of Johns, I think you fit the criteria fron the Canuck end but again I don't see the hawks willing to deal Kruger and Bickell simply because now you subtracted more of that four rolling lines to and no matter if you find two pluggers for Sharp to replace them you are still talking chemistry lesson gone awry....

Too me it simply doesn't work...they want Seabrook one up.

And whether you agree or disagree that Spezza's availabilty changes the market, you want both offense and defense from the guy if you MUST GET A PREMIER GUY.

You could give Vancouver everyone in our system born in the BC Province....but you still have to figure away for the offset the FIVE MILLION Kesler makes....forget about Spezza and SEVEN million he gets and have NEVER earned.

and why would the Canucks simply take on "a veteran contract" unless the pot is so sweet and the pressure by kesler is so intense that they succumb to a Cap return replacement part in Sharp that is three years older, and two years longer in contract than Kesler's.

To do that they MUST get some real upside...
and that is where my head starts exploding....

I done trying to do it...I will wait to see what is actually attempted at this point because it simply doesn't work....
- wiz1901

We don't have a legitimate 2nd line center - and haven't had for quite some time and that is exactly what this team needs.... If it takes Bickell - so be it.. Keser could easily outproduce Bickell x 10. If Bickel needs to be part of the deal than it's a realistic no brainer.... Kessler has Toews qualities and can put up 50 points a season while Bickell puts up 15. And the beautiful thing is the Hawks don't have to give much to get him - at least not pieces of their team that will make them from contenders to pretenders.

Remember the Hawks are on the top of a 6 team negotiating list.

We don't have a legitimate 2nd line center - and haven't had for quite some time and that is exactly what this team needs.... If it takes Bickell - so be it.. Keser could easily outproduce Bickell x 10. If Bickel needs to be part of the deal than it's a realistic no brainer.... Kessler has Toews qualities and can put up 50 points a season while Bickell puts up 15. And the beautiful thing is the Hawks don't have to give much to get him - at least not pieces of their team that will make them from contenders to pretenders.

Remember the Hawks are on the top of a 6 team negotiating list.
- Tazer19

Why the need for a legitimate 2C...when we've been to 4 WCF's in six years and won two cups in 4 years....one could make the argument it will be cheaper by way of trade and money to bring in an upgrade at 3C ....make your checking line stronger and your bottom six deeper.....fill the gap at 2C with a veteran until TT is ready......if that's where the hawks project him.

Bickel 15 points a season??? Kesler on par with Toews????

If we trade Bickel for Kesler...next year the need will be size and fans like you will be proposing crazy trades to get it.....when we had it the year before....

Again...your credibility is taking a beating....a severe one.

We don't have a legitimate 2nd line center - and haven't had for quite some time and that is exactly what this team needs.... If it takes Bickell - so be it.. Keser could easily outproduce Bickell x 10. If Bickel needs to be part of the deal than it's a realistic no brainer.... Kessler has Toews qualities and can put up 50 points a season while Bickell puts up 15. And the beautiful thing is the Hawks don't have to give much to get him - at least not pieces of their team that will make them from contenders to pretenders.

Remember the Hawks are on the top of a 6 team negotiating list.
- Tazer19

More likey than not the Canucks will tell Kesler there is no equal value in trade they can find with the teams you are willing to go to so shut up and get ready for training camp.

I disagree.

Teravainen might be the only prospect with a huge offensive skill that this team sees for a long time. You just can't give that away. As much as I love Danault and McNeill, I'd sooner give up one of those two then flipping Teravainen off in a trade.

Draft position aside, which doesn't mean all that much, the talent that this kid has shouldn't be overlooked.
- EKolb13

I think you are buying the hype. He really doesn't have huge offensive skills, IMO. He doesn't put the puck in the net. His size is a major factor. He will be easy to take out of a game. He isn't exceptionally fast. I would move him and not think twice about it.

Game changers don't need time in the AHL.

More likey than not the Canucks will tell Kesler there is no equal value in trade they can find with the teams you are willing to go to so shut up and get ready for training camp.
- RickJ

This is more likely to happen......

Just because Kesler wants to become a Hawk doesn't mean they will make a trade that makes no sense at all....

We don't have a legitimate 2nd line center - and haven't had for quite some time and that is exactly what this team needs.... If it takes Bickell - so be it.. Keser could easily outproduce Bickell x 10. If Bickel needs to be part of the deal than it's a realistic no brainer.... Kessler has Toews qualities and can put up 50 points a season while Bickell puts up 15. And the beautiful thing is the Hawks don't have to give much to get him - at least not pieces of their team that will make them from contenders to pretenders.

Remember the Hawks are on the top of a 6 team negotiating list.
- Tazer19

Bickell wouldn't be the centerpiece to a Kesler deal. A team in a rebuild wouldn't have much use for him.

I have no problems using TT to get a guy who makes them better right now. The Hawks don't exactly have a strong track record drafting non-Swedes in the international market. Add in his draft position and the odds of him being a gamebreaker are low, IMO. He isn't a guy who will lead a team to a Cup. So I don't think losing him is anything Hawk fans will regret for years.
- Elbows15

Seems too early to tell what his upside is just yet. He's currently considered or listed as the Hawks' top prospect. Who knows, perhaps a kid like Hartman ends up better than TT.

If the Hawks continue to do well, high-end talent like he might be are tougher to find. Doesn't mean they can't pluck another Saad outside the top picks, but the odds are longer. I'd simply like to have a better idea of his ceiling, but if the Hawks are willing to part with him, you can probably bet that they don't believe his ceiling is high enough to be the next big thing & I'm ok with that.

To me, as an organizational outsider, it just seems a little early to part with a top prospect in a tight salary cap environment when drafting well & building from within is so critical to overall success.

I disagree with your assessment because it's not well thought out and seems to be short sighted...

First off...the Hawks have no one in the system with Bickels size/Skating ability/heavy shot.....yes he had an unproductive season which could be blamed for coming back to soon from knee surgery and he may have re-injured the knee when he crashed into the net.....Jimmy Hayes does not compare...and all I need to say to that is skating abilty + hawks quick transition game = failure....and that's why he is a Florida Panther.

Second...the Hawks have to many prospects??? Really???...and this is a problem?? All relative to the Hawks core is they do not need anymore scoring....they need bottom six and to become stronger up the middle. Players like Nordstrom, Danault, McNeil, Hartman, Hayes (possibly) have been pegged by the franchise to fill those roles/positions in the next few years.....will all of them contribute..NO....will 2 or three of them yes....why is this important to build from within and not go out fill out your bottom six with FA's? Because you will not be able to sustain success by doing so....the Hawks have two major players in need of extensions....Saad will have a big contract sooner or later......Kruger may stay because he fills a vital role and is consistent.....where is the money going to come from????....hence why the players outside your core need to be developed from within...Because the CORE COST A LOT OF MONEY!

Third....you're acting as if it's a guarantee the Nucks send 50% of Keslers salary the Hawks way....Why??? Why would they have to do this???......They don't need to!!


Finally TT....yes TT has huge upside...but he is still in the infant stages of development....lots of variables...lots of moving parts....let's hope for the Hawks sake he is half of what you think he will be.....Your thoughts remind of Cub fans who thought Felix Pie was the next Willie Mays......where is he today???
- UnnamedSource

You're absolutely overrating Bickell - do you know his cap hit?.... As far as having too many prospects - how would you feel if you knew you could make an NHL team but the team that drafted you is so stacked that they have no room for you?

Would you rather play in the AHL or be traded to team that would actually give you an opportunity to play in the NHL like what happened with Jimmy Hayes and Dylan Olson? Or how about Kevin Hayes refusing to sign with Chicago because Chicago wont play him because they have no room..

All Bowman has really been doing is stacking picks - now he has too many - especially centers.

Bowman will swap a 3rd for another 3rd, a 4th and a 3rd in next years draft.

I suppose he likes the competition amongst players but I think he has taken that too far.