So because you think Ott is not a leader and his so called teams were bad, he shouldn't be here and will do nothing for this team because we have Gionta? who plays a totally different game then Ott. I'll take Ott all day long over Stewart, Stewart is no leader but Ott is.
- SABRES 89

No, I'm saying that Gionta fills more than enough of the "leadership" role than Ott does. He not only has the track record to be able to teach these young kids how to be professionals, but his career also shows that he probably can teach them how to win as well. There's very little in Ott's career that indicates that he does the same.

Unless Steve Ott has some magical "do as I say, not as I do" influential capability, I really don't see a need for him on this team as it's constructed now.

ALERT!!!!!! A new Garth word......................... geosynchronous orbit

Okay, as someone who doesn't want to the see the Sabres lay down for a lottery pick, let me ask you this: for all the supposed "leadership" that Ott brings, why is it that his teams throughout his career are either terrible or fall short (see Dallas and St. Louis)?
- buffalofan19

There are plenty of "leaders" who have never sniffed a Cup.

No, I'm saying that Gionta fills more than enough of the "leadership" role than Ott does. He not only has the track record to be able to teach these young kids how to be professionals, but his career also shows that he probably can teach them how to win as well. There's very little in Ott's career that indicates that he does the same.
- buffalofan19

Whatever you say, don't be shocked if they sign him

Whatever you say, don't be shocked if they sign him
- SABRES 89

I won't be shocked. That doesn't mean it's the right move.

There are plenty of "leaders" who have never sniffed a Cup.
- grand-magus

How many of those "leaders" have such a record of their teams accomplishing next to nothing?

He and Shane Doan, to me, are the worst offenders. They get touted as these great leaders, and yet they don't have the results to show for it. It's not like their teams have even been good teams that got near championships and just fell short. They haven't even come close. Their leadership qualities, in reality, seem to be more of a myth than anything else.

I won't be shocked. That doesn't mean it's the right move.
- buffalofan19

According to you, nothing they have done is the right move.

According to you, nothing they have done is the right move.
- SABRES 89

This is blatantly false. I said repeatedly I really liked both the Gorges and Gionta acquisitions. I also said I had no problem with the acquisition of Moulson as a player, but I didn't like the term. Finally, I said that the McCormick and Foligno signings where neutral to me, don't like them, don't hate them.

That's far from the made up narrative on this site that I criticized every move that Murray has made so far.

The signing of Gionta makes Ott irrelevant. He's not needed.
- buffalofan19

Exactly. Makes less then zero sense.

We have multiple players who play similar roles as him. McCormick, Mitchell, Stewart, Kaleta, Foligno and Gionta all have attributes similar to Ott.

How many of those "leaders" have such a record of their teams accomplishing next to nothing?

He and Shane Doan, to me, are the worst offenders. They get touted as these great leaders, and yet they don't have the results to show for it. It's not like their teams have been good teams that got near championships and just fell short. They haven't even come close.
- buffalofan19

Marcel Dionne.
Trevor Linden.
Cam Neely.
Wendel Clark.

Those are just four off the top of my head. Each has had varying degrees of success with their respective teams, but couldn't get it done when it got right down to it

Marcel Dionne.
Trevor Linden.
Cam Neely.
Wendel Clark.

Those are just four off the top of my head. Each has had varying degrees of success with their respective teams, but couldn't get it done when it got right down to it
- grand-magus

And neither Doan nor Ott have got anywhere near even the success those four have achieved.

How many of those "leaders" have such a record of their teams accomplishing next to nothing?

He and Shane Doan, to me, are the worst offenders. They get touted as these great leaders, and yet they don't have the results to show for it. It's not like their teams have even been good teams that got near championships and just fell short. They haven't even come close. Their leadership qualities, in reality, seem to be more of a myth than anything else.
- buffalofan19

Very well said my friend.

This is blatantly false. I said repeatedly I really liked both the Gorges and Gionta acquisitions. I also said I had no problem with the acquisition of Moulson as a player, but I didn't like the term. Finally, I said that the McCormick and Foligno signings where neutral to me, don't like them, don't hate them.

That's far from the made up narrative on this site that I criticized every move that Murray has made so far.
- buffalofan19

Nah, you just talk down to everyone like you are right all the time, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Murray said multiple times in that interview he has been getting lots of calls for Foligno. All I was saying is that he is a roster player that other teams are interested in. I dont think he should trade anyone unless he gets a good haul for them.
- Themomentgood

Foligno is interesting. Weve seen him look good, but there are long stretches of inconsistency. If nolan gets his head on right, hes the kind of player murray wants more of. Hes still a kid. Power forwards take time. Im not against moving him, but something really nice better be coming back this way. Curious to see if deslauriers will be able to push him for a spot on the third line though.

And neither Doan nor Ott have got anywhere near even the success those four have achieved.
- buffalofan19

But it doesn't mean they're not leaders.

It's obvious just by listening to players, people, press, etc talk about Ott and Doan that they lead their respective locker rooms

Nah, you just talk down to everyone like you are right all the time, whatever helps you sleep at night.
- SABRES 89

The only people who feel they are talked down to are the ones that refuse to address the actual points of my argument. What do they call it in the site's code of conduct: attacking the poster and not the post? That's what you're doing here.

But it doesn't mean they're not leaders.

It's obvious just by listening to players, people, press, etc talk about Ott and Doan that they lead their respective locker rooms
- grand-magus

But what does it really accomplish? If they're "leading" into futility, how good of leaders are they really? The NHL, like the rest of professional sports, is a results-driven league. If what they bring isn't accomplishing those results, then how effective are they?

Get rid of Stewart's sorry a$$ and bring back Ott
- SABRES 89

I bet you want to bring back the 5th Beatle too. I wonder if there is another fan base that grows so attached to it's mediocre players as some Sabres fans do.

Nah, you just talk down to everyone like you are right all the time, whatever helps you sleep at night.
- SABRES 89

oh my

But what does it really accomplish? If they're "leading" into futility, how good of leaders are they really? The NHL, like the rest of professional sports, is a results-driven league. If what they bring isn't accomplishing those results, then how effective are they?
- buffalofan19

You're not a fan of Ott.

We get it.

But your opinions are more of an indictment of his team's general managers rather than the player.

One man cannot win it all alone. If you're blaming Ott's teams' inability to win a championship solely on him , you're just grasping for straws on why the Sabres don't need him. Rather, why don't you just say "I'm not a fan, and it don't think we need him"

I bet you want to bring back the 5th Beatle too. I wonder if there is another fan base that grows so attached to it's mediocre players as some Sabres fans do.
- GilPerreault11

...is Stewart, too.

But what does it really accomplish? If they're "leading" into futility, how good of leaders are they really? The NHL, like the rest of professional sports, is a results-driven league. If what they bring isn't accomplishing those results, then how effective are they?
- buffalofan19

"John Scott is necessary"

You're not a fan of Ott.

We get it.

But your opinions are more of an indictment of his team's general managers rather than the player.

One man cannot win it all alone. If you're blaming Ott's teams' inability to win a championship solely on them, you're just grasping for straws on why the Sabres don't need him. Rather, why don't you just say "I'm not a fan, and it don't think we need him"
- grand-magus

I agree with your point, but I have to say I have no desire for Ott to come back either.

The only people who feel they are talked down to are the ones that refuse to address the actual points of my argument. What do they call it in the site's code of conduct: attacking the poster and not the post? That's what you're doing here.
- buffalofan19

Ok Dr. Phil

You're not a fan of Ott.

We get it.

But your opinions are more of an indictment of his team's general managers rather than the player.

One man cannot win it all alone. If you're blaming Ott's teams' inability to win a championship solely on them, you're just grasping for straws on why the Sabres don't need him. Rather, why don't you just say "I'm not a fan, and it don't think we need him"
- grand-magus

No, I'm of the firm believer that a team like the Sabres are in need of difference makers. And nothing that Steve Ott has done throughout his career has really indicated that he's been one. That's not to say he's a terrible hockey player. It's simply saying that the results show that he's not as good as people say he is.

I didn't mind Steve Ott when he was here. And I'm not going to be upset if they end up signing him. I also don't think they need him. Gionta already fills his role and then some.