There are few players I wouldn't trade for 4 picks, and Crosby is one of them. Stamkos, Toews, Doughty, and that's about it. Hell, I'd hate to do it, but I'd trade Giroux for 4. But for the truly elite guys in the league, there's zero chance (at least next to zero) that you'd get a fair return. They're guys that you just can't replace.

You bring up the Flyers picks...so, if the Flyers traded for Crosby after the 09 season, Pittsburgh would (if drafting the same players) get Emerson Etem, Stuart Percy, Scott Laughton, and Sam Morin. Tell me if you'd rather have those 4 players or one of Crosby/Toews/Doughty/Stamkos.
- jmatchett383

Obvi

Unless it's Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux, you ALWAYS take the picks.
- AllInForFlyers

I will say this for TB... they were kind of in a bind there. New franchise luster fading, seemed like they were close to turning a corner on the ice... taking the picks might have set them back another 5-6 years. Of course, the way it played out, it set them back anyway (Renberg's health and Dykhuis being Dykhuis), but you can kind of see the thought process behind it... kind of.

I think you'd have to take the known commodity in Crosby. You're looking at it as an 8 pick for 1 player deal. You still have your own picks.
- PhillySportsGuy

I do understand what you guys are saying, but when I look at teams like Pittsburgh, I believe I see what I am describing: you can still have the MVP and get beaten by a team that has a clear advantage in talented and skilled depth, which is how the Rags beat them, IMO.

I will say this for TB... they were kind of in a bind there. New franchise luster fading, seemed like they were close to turning a corner on the ice... taking the picks might have set them back another 5-6 years. Of course, the way it played out, it set them back anyway (Renberg's health and Dykhuis being Dykhuis), but you can kind of see the thought process behind it... kind of.
- Tomahawk

I agree, they were in a brutal spot. Just crazy how bad they were at that time.

I agree, they were in a brutal spot. Just crazy how bad they were at that time.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, it would be like if the Jets missed the PO's the next couple of seasons, but improved, and somebody OS'd Trouba and/or Scheifele. They might need players back.

Yeah Powe! I like the signing.

I don't look at it like that; I look at it like you are getting those picks in addition to your picks, because you would be building a team.

Yeah, I would, because I'd look at it like I added those four guys to a core of Beau Bennett, Olli Maata, and whoever else those picks netted. Once you start rolling with that kind to talent, when your have developed them...it works.

Edit: Clearly, by taking the picks, I would be saying, "right this minute, I am not as good as I was yesterday. But if I and my staff do our jobs well, we will be better than one player will make us."

I truly believe talented depth wins over the long turn in the NHL.
- AllInForFlyers

But they'd have those picks regardless.

Move along

But they'd have those picks regardless.
- jmatchett383

I think there are players you take the picks and players you do not. Do you think Buffalo wished they had taken the picks when Edmonton offer sheeted Vanek?

Generally, stud D-men and PPG centers you keep. Wingers can be replaced the easiest.

Chris Gratton had, what I felt like, was the worst 62 point season in the history of hockey in '97-'98. I'd love to know why Clarke wanted him on that team.
- johndewar

It definitely wasn't one of Clarke's better ideas.

Move along
- Giroux_Is_God

Next topic: Andrew MacDonald.

Great write-up, Bill. I think another aspect that can impact Save% is team's with the lead tend to play more conservatively and allow shots from the outside while not committing too much to trying to generate offense.

The PK will hurt a goalie's overall save% as well. A team like the Flyers plays on the PK a lot more often than a team like the Devil's.

Not taking the bait



I don't know if there's a way to quantify shot quality to the point where it's not too subjective.
- Jsaquella

Only way I can think of is distance from net. Closer shots are more likely to be dangerous shots.

It's not accurate on a case by case basis, but over the course of hundreds/thousands of shots, it paints a picture.

Just a couple things about goaltenders . . . and shooting. Goalies today focus on taking away everything down low and do leave a lot open upstairs. Back in the day when I used to watch warmups at pro games, players would spend a fair amount of time right around the net with no goalie and just try to roof pucks. This goes back to the 70s. Players don't seem to focus on working on that the way they once did and it costs teams goals, at least I haven't seen it in warmups since way back when.

I thought the turning point of the 0-3 comeback vs Boston a few years back was when the Flyers started going upstairs on Rask. He'd been leaving that wide open all series but the Flyers had been trying to stuff down low. When they made that adjustment, it turned the series.

I think there are players you take the picks and players you do not. Do you think Buffalo wished they had taken the picks when Edmonton offer sheeted Vanek?

Generally, stud D-men and PPG centers you keep. Wingers can be replaced the easiest.
- mickel25

Yeah, ANA ended up turning the Penner compensation (1 + 2 +3) into Jake Gardiner, Justin Schultz, MA Bergeron, 2 high 2nd-rounders.

All that >>>> Penner

Not taking the bait



I don't know if there's a way to quantify shot quality to the point where it's not too subjective.
- Jsaquella

Too many q's for this early in the morning

Chris Gratton had, what I felt like, was the worst 62 point season in the history of hockey in '97-'98. I'd love to know why Clarke wanted him on that team.
- johndewar

Clarke was already starting to have problems with Lindros/father by the end of 96-97 and I think his thinking was: lets grab a big center in case I end up trading Lindros in the next couple of years.

Clarke was always obsessed with size. Not a bad idea in that pre obstruction era, but Clarke took it to an extreme.

POWE!
- jmatchett383

BAM!

OOF!

Holy exclamations, Batman!!

Wasn't one of them used for Gagne and another for Williams?
- jmatchett383

yup

Clarke was already starting to have problems with Lindros/father by the end of 96-97 and I think his thinking was: lets grab a big center in case I end up trading Lindros in the next couple of years.

Clarke was always obsessed with size. Not a bad idea in that pre obstruction era, but Clarke took it to an extreme.
- BiggE

That's kind of how I remember it too. I think he thought Eric might hold out or walk in a contract year or something.

But really, there was no way Gratton was ever gonna be a substitute for the E-Train.

I think you'd have to take the known commodity in Crosby. You're looking at it as an 8 pick for 1 player deal. You still have your own picks.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, I'll take a for sure superstar over picks. If those 4 picks all fall between 20-30, odds are you will end up with 1 journeyman, 2 average NHL players and one very good, but not Superstar level player. I'd rather have the Crosby, Toews, Giroux, Doughty, etc...

I feel like Mason's SV% would have been close to .920 if The Flyers hadn't gotten lazy at the end of a lot of games they were winning and given up up cheap goals.

I will say this for TB... they were kind of in a bind there. New franchise luster fading, seemed like they were close to turning a corner on the ice... taking the picks might have set them back another 5-6 years. Of course, the way it played out, it set them back anyway (Renberg's health and Dykhuis being Dykhuis), but you can kind of see the thought process behind it... kind of.
- Tomahawk

True. In TB's eyes they likely saw Renberg as a legit top line winger and Dykhuis as a dman who took a regular shift for a team that just went to the finals.

Next topic: Andrew MacDonald.
- PLindbergh31

That's kind of how I remember it too. I think he thought Eric might hold out or walk in a contract year or something.

But really, there was no way Gratton was ever gonna be a substitute for the E-Train.
- johndewar

No doubt, but I guess he figured that it was as close as he could get without giving up a bundle.