Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Shot Volumes, Powe, Quick Hits

Love the continued depth signings by Hexy! Kung Powe!

Love the continued depth signings by Hexy! Kung Powe!
- coffee junkie

I do to. I know People might scoff at them but by making the Phantoms more competitive it helps our prospects by playing meaningful games and maybe get valuable expereince if they make the playoffs.

I do to. I know People might scoff at them but by making the Phantoms more competitive it helps our prospects by playing meaningful games and maybe get valuable expereince if they make the playoffs.
- J35Bacher

Powe will, hopefully, also be a good mentor for some of the kids. The Phantoms' version of Crash Davis.

Really enjoyed the meat of the blog, too. I would imagine that facing more shots, routine or not, would help keep a goalie's head in the game. I'm curious to hear Hammarby's thoughts on this (after blowing a gasket due to CSP's inclusion, of course).

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Shot Volumes, Powe, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

Shot volume vs shot quality is an issue in dealing with save %. Even delving into ES save% and other numbers don't fully cover the issue.

Simon Nolet needs a picture in the Flyers Hall of Fame just for Gagne and Giroux alone

Powe will, hopefully, also be a good mentor for some of the kids. The Phantoms' version of Crash Davis.

Really enjoyed the meat of the blog, too. I would imagine that facing more shots, routine or not, would help keep a goalie's head in the game. I'm curious to hear Hammarby's thoughts on this (after blowing a gasket due to CSP's inclusion, of course).
- tangent_man

Shot volume vs shot quality is an issue in dealing with save %. Even delving into ES save% and other numbers don't fully cover the issue.
- Jsaquella

Which is why, drum roll please.... Fancy stats can't tell the whole story. Any statition worth their own skin will tell you that you must be careful turning real world observations into numbers, making calculations and turning them back into real world observations. Limitations exist. Which is also not to undervalue there addition to observation.

Of course, I am preaching to the choir.
I BTW make a living on statistics.

Which is why, drum roll please.... Fancy stats can't tell the whole story. Any statition worth their own skin will tell you that you must be careful turning real world observations into numbers, making calculations and turning them back into real world observations. Limitations exist. Which is also not to undervalue there addition to observation.

Of course, I am preaching to the choir.
I BTW make a living on statistics.
- coffee junkie

Banned for speaking truth

Shot volume vs shot quality is an issue in dealing with save %. Even delving into ES save% and other numbers don't fully cover the issue.
- Jsaquella

I totally agree, is it possible to have a " shot quality" stat that is not debatable? I know there is " scoring chances" stats but they don't always include actual shots on net.
The Flyer Ranger series for example. You kept hearing about the " King"leading his team to victory but the Flyers had better goaltending in that series hands down

Which is why, drum roll please.... Fancy stats can't tell the whole story. Any statition worth their own skin will tell you that you must be careful turning real world observations into numbers, making calculations and turning them back into real world observations. Limitations exist. Which is also not to undervalue there addition to observation.

Of course, I am preaching to the choir.
I BTW make a living on statistics.
- coffee junkie

Not taking the bait



I don't know if there's a way to quantify shot quality to the point where it's not too subjective.

I totally agree, is it possible to have a " shot quality" stat that is not debatable? I know there is " scoring chances" stats but they don't always include actual shots on net.
The Flyer Ranger series for example. You kept hearing about the " King"leading his team to victory but the Flyers had better goaltending in that series hands down
- 3flyerkids

I don't see how it's possible. Same goes for scoring chances

I don't see how it's possible. Same goes for scoring chances
- Jsaquella

not related at all, and im really late, but Rainbow Rudolph was one of the most underrated characters, in an underrated movie. Excellent job.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Shot Volumes, Powe, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

Man, did both teams really screw up in that Gratton thing... TB should have taken the pucks...

Man, did both teams really screw up in that Gratton thing... TB should have taken the pucks...
- Tomahawk

I know. That trade still boggles the mind today. It's like Tampa did the Flyers a favor after the Flyers OSed their player.

If Tampa wanted to win now, they could have flipped those 4 first rounders for a lot more.

Chris Gratton had, what I felt like, was the worst 62 point season in the history of hockey in '97-'98. I'd love to know why Clarke wanted him on that team.

I don't know if there's a way to quantify shot quality to the point where it's not too subjective.
- Jsaquella

http://blogs.thescore.com...-still-gets-things-right/

POWE!

I totally agree, is it possible to have a " shot quality" stat that is not debatable? I know there is " scoring chances" stats but they don't always include actual shots on net.
The Flyer Ranger series for example. You kept hearing about the " King"leading his team to victory but the Flyers had better goaltending in that series hands down
- 3flyerkids

"Shot quality" and "scoring chance" numbers are about as arbitrary as you can get.

Simon Nolet needs a picture in the Flyers Hall of Fame just for Gagne and Giroux alone
- AllInForFlyers

Nolet was in the Flyers organization for awhile in the early 70's. Ironic that it was Farwell, the outsider, that brought Nolet, the ex-Flyer, back into the organization.

Man, did both teams really screw up in that Gratton thing... TB should have taken the pucks...
- Tomahawk

Wasn't one of them used for Gagne and another for Williams?

Man, did both teams really screw up in that Gratton thing... TB should have taken the pucks...
- Tomahawk

Unless it's Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux, you ALWAYS take the picks.

Man, I'd take four first rounders for Sidney Crosby. Dead serious.

Just say with those four firsts you drafted Steve Downie, Claude Giroux, James van Riemsydyk and Luca Sbisa -- which is entirely possible, because that is what the Flyers did, in four consecutive drafts from 2005 to 2008.

Think about having your own first rounders ON TOP OF THAT.

You won't hit on every pick. Some picks won't maximize their potential, some will bust entirely.

But if you have a competent scouting staff that does well in the first round, even generally?

Take the picks.

Unless it's Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux, you ALWAYS take the picks.

Man, I'd take four first rounders for Sidney Crosby. Dead serious.

Just say with those four firsts you drafted Steve Downie, Claude Giroux, James van Riemsydyk and Luca Sbisa -- which is entirely possible, because that is what the Flyers did, in four consecutive drafts from 2005 to 2008.

Think about having your own first rounders ON TOP OF THAT.

You won't hit on every pick. Some picks won't maximize their potential, some will bust entirely.

But if you have a competent scouting staff that does well in the first round, even generally?

Take the picks.
- AllInForFlyers

There are few players I wouldn't trade for 4 picks, and Crosby is one of them. Stamkos, Toews, Doughty, and that's about it. Hell, I'd hate to do it, but I'd trade Giroux for 4. But for the truly elite guys in the league, there's zero chance (at least next to zero) that you'd get a fair return. They're guys that you just can't replace.

You bring up the Flyers picks...so, if the Flyers traded for Crosby after the 09 season, Pittsburgh would (if drafting the same players) get Emerson Etem, Stuart Percy, Scott Laughton, and Sam Morin. Tell me if you'd rather have those 4 players or one of Crosby/Toews/Doughty/Stamkos.

There are few players I wouldn't trade for 4 picks, and Crosby is one of them. Stamkos, Toews, Doughty, and that's about it. Hell, I'd hate to do it, but I'd trade Giroux for 4. But for the truly elite guys in the league, there's zero chance (at least next to zero) that you'd get a fair return. They're guys that you just can't replace.

You bring up the Flyers picks...so, if the Flyers traded for Crosby after the 09 season, Pittsburgh would (if drafting the same players) get Emerson Etem, Stuart Percy, Scott Laughton, and Sam Morin. Tell me if you'd rather have those 4 players or one of Crosby/Toews/Doughty/Stamkos.
- jmatchett383

I don't look at it like that; I look at it like you are getting those picks in addition to your picks, because you would be building a team.

Yeah, I would, because I'd look at it like I added those four guys to a core of Beau Bennett, Olli Maata, and whoever else those picks netted. Once you start rolling with that kind to talent, when your have developed them...it works.

Edit: Clearly, by taking the picks, I would be saying, "right this minute, I am not as good as I was yesterday. But if I and my staff do our jobs well, we will be better than one player will make us."

I truly believe talented depth wins over the long turn in the NHL.

I don't look at it like that; I look at it like you are getting those picks in addition to your picks, because you would be building a team.

Yeah, I would, because I'd look at it like I added those four guys to a core of Beau Bennett, Olli Maata, and whoever else those picks netted. Once you start rolling with that kind to talent, when your have developed them...it works.
- AllInForFlyers

I think you'd have to take the known commodity in Crosby. You're looking at it as an 8 pick for 1 player deal. You still have your own picks.