was really focused just on goal scoring. Barber a better all around player than Carter.
- isaiah520

Better goal scorer too.

I think the feeling is often, "if this guy did x with a crappy team, he'll do x++ with the Flyers." That often doesn't happen.

I think worse than the Gratton move was moving Vinny Prospal in the Daigle package.
- fls13

Agreed. That was an awful trade

A lot of players were over sold back then. Daigle, Falloon, Lecavalier maybe, Dan McGillis who I actually liked but not for what we gave up for him.
- SuperSchennBros

Oh sure...Happens now. Look at Kevin Hayes. He might be a good 2nd liner in time, he's got a dozen teams going hard after him now

Gratton did zero his first month-plus here after scoring a goal in his Flyers debut. Cashman then put LeClair on his line for two months, and Gratton's totals picked up for awhile.

Gratton's 22 goals and 62 points for his first season in Philly were OK numbers but neither justified the contract nor accounted for a variety of problems (none of them his fault) that it created:

1) It forced Brind'Amour to split the season between left wing (in the top six) and third-line center in a shutdown role. He was unhappy with it, although he eventually channeled it into a big season that convinced the Flyers to move Gratton to LW -- which made Gratton unhappy and very unproductive -- the next season.

2) Dainius Zubrus was forced into a first-line RW role he wasn't ready to play at age 19. Then Trent Klatt moved into the role. Either which way, it was a step backward from what Renberg had provided at even at less-than-full health.

3) Stats Inc. 1998-99 Hockey Annual listed Gratton as the player who picked up the most "garbage time" points in the NHL during the 1997-98 season, and he had a big fat zero in how they defined their "clutch goals" category. You can quibble over the criteria they used but the point is that when the Flyers desperately needed someone to step up, Gratton was rarely the one who did -- and that was with Lindros, LeClair and Brind'Amour getting primary defensive attention.

Basically, the Flyers never had a need for Gratton in the first place. They already had their 1-2 punch in the middle with Lindros and Brind'Amour and Joel Otto (albeit not healthy and declining rapidly by 1997-98) had been a strong third-line center for the two previous seasons.

The real lesson from the whole Gratton situation was that just because the Flyers -- in a non-cap era -- could afford the player, it didn't mean that he was what the team actually needed. They needed to upgrade the goaltending and defense rather than getting another big center.
- bmeltzer

I made the point the other day that Gratton had the worst 62 point season of any Flyers player I ever saw. It's easy to look back at statistics over a full year and recontextualize. Gratton was not a good fit here, period.

Wasn't there also some concern about Lindros' contract status such that Gratton (nowhere near the player Eric was) would at least provide them with another big center should Eric have been traded or walked?

I made the point the other day that Gratton had the worst 62 point season of any Flyers player I ever saw. It's easy to look back at statistics over a full year and recontextualize. Gratton was not a good fit here, period.

Wasn't there also some concern about Lindros' contract status such that Gratton (nowhere near the player Eric was) would at least provide them with another big center should Eric have been traded or walked?
- johndewar

Yeah that was around the time Lindros started signing one year deals rather than a long term one as sort of a no trade protection

It would be great if Burke would take Rinaldo off our hands.
- Feanor

Wouldn't even need anything in return.

LeClair was deserving of more serious consideration for the Lady Byng Trophy than he ever got.

Totally agree with this. Never really thought of it, actually, but I think you are right on this.

I always kinda thought LeClair would have benefitted by losing his temper on the odd occasion and whipping up on a defenseman who was clutching and grabbing on him. When Tim Kerr decided to drop his gloves, he was a scary dude.

Better goal scorer too.
- 77rams

yea, definately more consistent

It would be great if Burke would take Rinaldo off our hands.
- Feanor

It would be great if you weren't such a wuss

So any rumblings on if the Flyers will be putting an offer in on Hayes?

So any rumblings on if the Flyers will be putting an offer in on Hayes?
- Buzzo

It was reported that they were interested.

Hayes has apparently narrowed down the list to 4 or 5 teams. Flyers could be one but who knows.

Calgary and Boston seem to be strongly rumored. I personally dont see him coming here.

It was reported that they were interested.

Hayes has apparently narrowed down the list to 4 or 5 teams. Flyers could be one but who knows.

Calgary and Boston seem to be strongly rumored. I personally dont see him coming here.
- hereticpride

I'm betting on Calgary, their roster seems to give him the best shot at a top 6 role

It was reported that they were interested.

Hayes has apparently narrowed down the list to 4 or 5 teams. Flyers could be one but who knows.

Calgary and Boston seem to be strongly rumored. I personally dont see him coming here.
- hereticpride

I read somewhere on twitter that flyers made an in-person pitch yesterday... But how credible that is no one knows.

I agree though.... He's not coming to Philly even though I hope he does.

I'm betting on Calgary, their roster seems to give him the best shot at a top 6 role
- BiggE

Agreed. I don't see much we can offer him here that other teams cant.

Ryan Johansen. Now there is a player to get your hopes up over. It sounds like he and the Jackets are miles apart and I dont see how that resolves itself, even through arbatration. He would be the playmaker Hexy and Berube are looking for. Would an offer of the Schenn Bros. get it done? Then sign Derek Morris to replace LSchenn for a year while the prospects come along.

Agreed. I don't see much we can offer him here that other teams cant.

Ryan Johansen. Now there is a player to get your hopes up over. It sounds like he and the Jackets are miles apart and I dont see how that resolves itself, even through arbatration. He would be the playmaker Hexy and Berube are looking for. Would an offer of the Schenn Bros. get it done? Then sign Derek Morris to replace LSchenn for a year while the prospects come along.
- hereticpride

I feel the last thing we need from trading the Schenns is another center. Also, I doubt Columbus and Johansen don't get a deal done.

So any rumblings on if the Flyers will be putting an offer in on Hayes?
- Buzzo

just some stomach rumbles

I feel the last thing we need from trading the Schenns is another center. Also, I doubt Columbus and Johansen don't get a deal done.
- aflyerpower8

If i could get Johansen for the Schenns, id guess that Kekalinen was stoned

If i could get Johansen for the Schenns, id guess that Kekalinen was stoned
- Jsaquella

The fact he hasnt budged for what is clearly his best player really makes you wonder. I dont think that offer is that bad either...

Agreed. I don't see much we can offer him here that other teams cant.

Ryan Johansen. Now there is a player to get your hopes up over. It sounds like he and the Jackets are miles apart and I dont see how that resolves itself, even through arbatration. He would be the playmaker Hexy and Berube are looking for. Would an offer of the Schenn Bros. get it done? Then sign Derek Morris to replace LSchenn for a year while the prospects come along.
- hereticpride

Jackets view Johansson the way we view Giroux. Would you trade Giroux for both Schenns even if he was asking for a lot of money?

The fact he hasnt budged for what is clearly his best player really makes you wonder. I dont think that offer is that bad either...
- hereticpride

If I'm trading Johansen, I want a lot more than the Schenns.

WHATS THE HOLD UP

LeClair even carried Chris Gratton to respectability for two months during the 1997-98 season, when he was separated from Lindros. However, LeClair's production rate was markedly lower when Anatoli Semenov centered the top line in an injured Lindros' absence in 1995-96 and, for whatever reason, he never had much chemistry when Rod Brind'Amour was moved up. LeClair did fine when Dale Hawerchuk was there.

BTW, Mikael Renberg's production pre-abdominal tear was virtually identical regardless of whether Lindros, Brind'Amour, Semenov or even Slava Butsayev (three weeks during Renberg's rookie year) was his center.
- bmeltzer

Sorry Bill, take your facts and shove 'em. Renberg was lucky to be on the same ice as Lindros

WHATS THE HOLD UP
- Crimsoninja

He's gonna narrow it to 4-5 finalists by Monday, Crims

Leclair had more goals taken away from him during that era because of NHLs most ridculous, Mickey Mouse rules: foot in the crease

Leclair had more goals taken away from him during that era because of NHLs most ridculous, Mickey Mouse rules: foot in the crease
- KINGKENZO

I remember a goalie misplaying the puck and LeClair being fed a pass right in front for a slam dunk goal. The goal was waved off because LeClair had a foot in the crease even though the goalie wasn't even in the net.