Trade everyone.
- jmatchett383

That is one way to change it up.

Ah, gotcha.

Basketball, or actually the NBA, is just such a weird game now. It used to be about skill, defense, positioning passing, and scoring touch. Now it's about being a thug and "posterising" a guy so you can get on SportsCenter. Not to mention the insane talent dilution that seems rampant, and the fact that you can pick one out of 5 teams in the summer and have one of them win the championship.
- jmatchett383

That era of the NBA being more of a show than a sport is starting to end, partly because of guys like Hinkie. After the Heat went 2-4 in Championships-Final appearances after adding the "Big 3", teams are realizing that only having star players isn't enough. The team has to be good as a whole like the 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs. Both had the star power (less than the Heat for sure) but were better teams.

But why use them at all if they cannot point out a specific reason as to why the Flyers are not good 5 on 5 for example?

Ok so in your scenario Berube used analytics to figure out that the Flyers are not great 5 on 5. What is the solution to the problem based on the data you were given?
- mickel25

Berube ain't gonna use analytics. He plays Grossmann 20 mins a game...

Let's say he does though. Now that he knows their not great 5-v-5, he can make adjustments i.e. change lines or, more likely, his system to try and fix the problem. He's an NHL coach after all. If you don't see that they struggle 5-v-5, it might be that the coach will just tell them to "work harder" or whatever adage you want without truly addressing the problem.

That era of the NBA being more of a show than a sport is starting to end, partly because of guys like Hinkie. After the Heat went 2-4 in Championships-Final appearances after adding the "Big 3", teams are realizing that only having star players isn't enough. The team has to be good as a whole like the 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs. Both had the star power (less than the Heat for sure) but were better teams.
- NickTheKid87

I don't think we'll ever see a team as good/fun as the Jordan-era Bulls. Those teams were stacked and good, top to bottom. That's the era of basketball I enjoyed the most.

Berube ain't gonna use analytics. He plays Grossmann 20 mins a game...

Let's say he does though. Now that he knows their not great 5-v-5, he can make adjustments i.e. change lines or, more likely, his system to try and fix the problem. He's an NHL coach after all. If you don't see that they struggle 5-v-5, it might be that the coach will just tell them to "work harder" or whatever adage you want without truly addressing the problem.
- NickTheKid87

I think his system is definitely better than Lavi's. Lavi's system worked really well with the team he inherited, but not so much the team he left with. When you're asking Grossmann to pinch at the point, you're misusing player.

Berube's system seems more team-oriented with neutral zone movement and pressure, and it's up to the players to execute it. It seems like a much simpler system, which fits the makeup of the team much better than the Lavi constant pressure tactic.

I don't think we'll ever see a team as good/fun as the Jordan-era Bulls. Those teams were stacked and good, top to bottom. That's the era of basketball I enjoyed the most.
- jmatchett383

I don't think anything will help until players are forced to spend 3 years in college before entering the nba. Guys from that era played mutltiple seasons in college and understood the basic fundamentals of the game like how to defend a pick and roll and floor spacing

Berube ain't gonna use analytics. He plays Grossmann 20 mins a game...

Let's say he does though. Now that he knows their not great 5-v-5, he can make adjustments i.e. change lines or, more likely, his system to try and fix the problem. He's an NHL coach after all. If you don't see that they struggle 5-v-5, it might be that the coach will just tell them to "work harder" or whatever adage you want without truly addressing the problem.
- NickTheKid87

So you really don't have an answer. While I agree with Berube not using analytics. It seems to me that he did not need the data in this specific example. He preached from day one that they needed to play the game "quicker" and be better 5 on 5.

Outside of having numbers to reference during a specific discussion I do not see how the use of analytics makes you a better talent evaluator. Which teams use it specifically to there advantage?

So you really don't have an answer. While I agree with Berube not using analytics. It seems to me that he did not need the data in this specific example. He preached from day one that they needed to play the game "quicker" and be better 5 on 5.

Outside of having numbers to reference during a specific discussion I do not see how the use of analytics makes you a better talent evaluator. Which teams use it specifically to there advantage?
- mickel25

The Oakland Athletics. That's why they were able to win when Jason Giambi left.

Well I didnt invent the term. Maybe I should say they get their panties in a wad??
- GOA88

Uh oh, then someone else may get offended. When did we become this?

The Oakland Athletics. That's why they were able to win when Jason Giambi left.
- jmatchett383

Different sport. Analytics also apply much more literally to baseball than hockey. Baseball is a series of one on one battles encased within a team game.

Different sport. Analytics also apply much more literally to baseball than hockey. Baseball is a series of one on one battles encased within a team game.
- mickel25

That was...a joke???

Uh oh, then someone else may get offended. When did we become this?

- MBFlyerfan

http://www.amazon.com/Nat...aders-Great/dp/1118279050

That was...a joke???
- jmatchett383

I see that after reading it a second time. I am just a little wound up today. My bad.

I see that after reading it a second time. I am just a little wound up today. My bad.
- mickel25

No biggie.

http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Wusses-Americas-Leaders-Great/dp/1118279050
- jmatchett383

I don't agree with Rendell on much, but he is right about that. I tend to call it Victimistan. With a Capital City named Offendedburgh.

We need to concentrate more on Skin Thickness.

I think it's very premature to say it appears Hextall doesn't use analytics or has been misleading about them. For starters, Hextall has said he won't only use analytics, that they're only a part of his process. For secondly, I don't think he's specified exactly what analytics he'll be using and when. For thirdly, there really haven't been many moves to judge him on. And for lastly, these are truly very minor player signings, and may represent not wanting to blow assets to shore up a fourth line when he's on the record as taking the long view on building this club.
- BulliesPhan87

Pretty much this.

I don't recall Hexy ever explicitly limiting the scope of his analytics use, only that he's not going to let the tail wag the dog.

It sounds like Chief's been looking into some numbers too, with him droning on about entry %'s.

So you really don't have an answer. While I agree with Berube not using analytics. It seems to me that he did not need the data in this specific example. He preached from day one that they needed to play the game "quicker" and be better 5 on 5.

Outside of having numbers to reference during a specific discussion I do not see how the use of analytics makes you a better talent evaluator. Which teams use it specifically to there advantage?
- mickel25

The problem here is that Berube wants them to play a quicker game but the team is slow so he needs to adjust his system. While it's more sound than Lavy's (with this group) it's still not quite a good fit for the roster. If he were to use analytics, he'd see that Grossmann isn't nearly as good as he thinks. Grossmann should be used as a 3rd pairing dman against relatively light competition.

As for teams that have implored analytics, the Kings and Blackhawks are a couple. The mess of franchises that are the Leafs and Oilers have both recently hired analytics experts to help right the ship.

I don't agree with Rendell on much, but he is right about that. I tend to call it Victimistan. With a Capital City named Offendedburgh.

We need to concentrate more on Skin Thickness.
- MBFlyerfan

Different sport. Analytics also apply much more literally to baseball than hockey. Baseball is a series of one on one battles encased within a team game.
- mickel25

Just because baseball is a perfect fit for analytics doesn't mean hockey is relatively impenetrable. The game is still a closed system, with a set of rules, and clearly defined goals. Math can tease out the origins of the universe... I think it'll be up to the challenge of figuring out if your team is better off sinking your cap-dollars into Grabo or Bozak.

Put nikolas aube kubel on girouxs wing lol. I know it's jr preseason but this kid looks really really good. Could be the steal of the draft

Just because baseball is a perfect fit for analytics doesn't mean hockey is relatively impenetrable. The game is still a closed system, with a set of rules, and clearly defined goals. Math can tease out the origins of the universe... I think it'll be up to the challenge of figuring out if your team is better off sinking your cap-dollars into Grabo or Bozak.


- Tomahawk

GRABO!

Amirite?

GRABO!

Amirite?
- jmatchett383

Put nikolas aube kubel on girouxs wing lol. I know it's jr preseason but this kid looks really really good. Could be the steal of the draft
- 28Girouxsalem28

I know you're joking, but an 18-year-old kid who rode with Anthony Mantha last year on a championship team needs to be lights out at camp to even get a sniff of a spot.

Just because baseball is a perfect fit for analytics doesn't mean hockey is relatively impenetrable. The game is still a closed system, with a set of rules, and clearly defined goals. Math can tease out the origins of the universe... I think it'll be up to the challenge of figuring out if your team is better off sinking your cap-dollars into Grabo or Bozak.


- Tomahawk

I love this. We've used math to figure out how large and old the universe is, how far we are from the sun, how to get a man on the moon but it's useless when applied to hockey/sports.

The question then becomes which career AHLer/young kid you put in his place. Our forward depth is pretty unimpressive.
- jmatchett383

Bellemare, Alderson, Gordon, VdV, Jones, and Laughton are all options for the 4th line. Eventually White, Cousins and Leier will be, too.