And he employed/perfected it years later as a head coach when no one else in the league used it. Whether or not the trap itsels was innovative doesn't matter, as the employment of a system can be innovative in and of itself.

I'm right.
- jmatchett383

I think like any hockey system Coaches take basic systems that have been around forever and add thier own little tweaks to it. There are many differents facets to a system such as forecheck, neural zone forecheck, defensive zone coverage, breakouts, regroups,etc. All of it really stuff that has been around forever. Some coaches such as Laviolette even take parts of systems and use certain elements in combination.
There is no doubt that Lemare brought it back and made it popular to the point where a lot of teams still use it today in certain situations.

I think like any hockey system Coaches take basic systems that have ben around forever and add thier own little tweaks to it. There are many differents facets to a system such as forecheck, neural zone forecheck, defensive zone coverage, breakoouts, regroups,etc. All of it really stuff that has been around forever. Some coaches such as Laviolette even take parts of systems and use certain elements in combination.
There is no doubt that Lemare brought it back and made it popular to the point where a lot of teams still use it today in certain situations.
- MJL

Exactly
Bowman's LW lock used by Detroit in the late 90s was basically a hybrid of his Montreal system and the trap. It was a system designed for highly skilled players to make the best use of the trap.

What made Bowman a genius wasn't his basic system, it was knowing how to tweak his system to best fit his talent and knowing when to push his players and when to back off.

It was rigged. His entire career. He was nothing more than an above-average player in an era of diluted talent and goons who paid off every single player/team using his rich daddy's hotel money.
- jmatchett383

I'm more disturbed by his lack of commas.

what are you guys looking forward to most this season?

for me, its the new guys int he lineup, I think Bellemare will be an impact player all season and will get a chance to play up and down the lines and in every situation.

and I really hope Laughton stays on the team for a full season this year.

Umberger-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Akeson-Couturier-Read
Bellemare-Laughton-Raffl
Rinaldo

Well the theory has merit. For example, does Phil Esposito put 76 goals and 152 points in 70-71 if the NHL was still a 6 team league?

The answer is no, but, if he's playing on a team with Cashman, Hodge and most importantly Orr, he maybe puts up 50 and 100 which would be fantastic numbers in a 6 team league.

Another way to look at it is which current Flyers would be in the NHL if there were only 6 teams:
Forwards: Giroux and Voracek for sure, Simmonds as a 4th line energy guy and maybe Couturier as a 4th line PK specialist. Matt Read, cause he can play all forward positions might squeeze in as a spare forward.

D: Coburn for sure, and maybe AMac sneaks in as a 7th man or Streit as a 3rd pair pp specialist

G: no one. Mason would be a borderline backup at best in a 6 team league
- BiggE

Stop trying to prove that defensive liability rover Orr and goon Esposito were anything more than products of a watered-down league. We all know they were nothing special.

Exactly
Bowman's LW lock used by Detroit in the late 90s was basically a hybrid of his Montreal system and the trap. It was a system designed for highly skilled players to make the best use of the trap.

What made Bowman a genius wasn't his basic system, it was knowing how to tweak his system to best fit his talent and knowing when to push his players and when to back off.
- BiggE

Bowman even at times played different systems for different lines. He tried to incorporate the torpedo system in the NHL, but realized that not all players could play it successfully, and due to the specs of the NHL rink. So with certain lines and defense pairings he corporated the torpedo system, and with others, a more traditional system.
LW lock was another European system that Bowman brought over to the NHL.

Stop trying to prove that defensive liability rover Orr and goon Esposito were anything more than products of a watered-down league. We all know they were nothing special.
- jmatchett383

Yeah that Lafleur dude was just the Alexandre Daigle of his time!

Exactly
Bowman's LW lock used by Detroit in the late 90s was basically a hybrid of his Montreal system and the trap. It was a system designed for highly skilled players to make the best use of the trap.

What made Bowman a genius wasn't his basic system, it was knowing how to tweak his system to best fit his talent and knowing when to push his players and when to back off.
- BiggE

And therein lies Laviolette's biggest failure as head coach.

This Bellemare video is old but maybe some of you haven't seen it. My favorite goal is at 2:45.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efq5Yq2VVg#t=165

Well the theory has merit. For example, does Phil Esposito put 76 goals and 152 points in 70-71 if the NHL was still a 6 team league?

The answer is no, but, if he's playing on a team with Cashman, Hodge and most importantly Orr, he maybe puts up 50 and 100 which would be fantastic numbers in a 6 team league.

Another way to look at it is which current Flyers would be in the NHL if there were only 6 teams:
Forwards: Giroux and Voracek for sure, Simmonds as a 4th line energy guy and maybe Couturier as a 4th line PK specialist. Matt Read, cause he can play all forward positions might squeeze in as a spare forward.

D: Coburn for sure, and maybe AMac sneaks in as a 7th man or Streit as a 3rd pair pp specialist

G: no one. Mason would be a borderline backup at best in a 6 team league
- BiggE

Yeah, I've heard the theory a ton of times and it does obviously have merit. Anything that doubles in size is going to have to assume weaker assets to fill the void. After expansion the NHL would never have as strong of a product on the ice. The expansion in the late seventies was somewhat offset by European imports but the league was still weakened.

As far as Flyers making a 6 team league... I'd be hesitant to think anyone shy of Giroux would play in that league. I mean, is Coburn in the top 40 Dmen in the league? Is Voracek in the top 80 forwards? I'd think Mason might be in the top 15 maybe...

what are you guys looking forward to most this season?

for me, its the new guys int he lineup, I think Bellemare will be an impact player all season and will get a chance to play up and down the lines and in every situation.

and I really hope Laughton stays on the team for a full season this year.

Umberger-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Akeson-Couturier-Read
Bellemare-Laughton-Raffl
Rinaldo
- MrBigglesworth

I just see that 2nd line as a monumental failure. I really think VLC needs a fast skater who can pass. Even if you don't switch the wings on each line (1st and 2nd), I would at least like to see Voracek and Simmonds switched.

EDIT: I have dreams about that being our 4th line......

Yeah that Lafleur dude was just the Alexandre Daigle of his time!
- BiggE

That's giving LaFleur too much credit. He was too soft for a 6-team league of real men.

Yeah, I've heard the theory a ton of times and it does obviously have merit. Anything that doubles in size is going to have to assume weaker assets to fill the void. After expansion the NHL would never have as strong of a product on the ice. The expansion in the late seventies was somewhat offset by European imports but the league was still weakened.

As far as Flyers making a 6 team league... I'd be hesitant to think anyone shy of Giroux would play in that league. I mean, is Coburn in the top 40 Dmen in the league? Is Voracek in the top 80 forwards? I'd think Mason might be in the top 15 maybe...
- mayorofangrytown

Voracek, yes. Coburn as a stretch, maybe. Mason would be a backup, at best.

That's giving LaFleur too much credit. He was too soft for a 6-team league of real men.
- jmatchett383

the guy was named The Flower, how tough could he have been?

the guy was named The Flower, how tough could he have been?

- MBFlyerfan

Well, I mean, a tough flower, right? Roses have thorns.

Butthurt is a banable word.

If that isnt irony then I dont know what is.
- hereticpride

Ive said it before, anybody who uses the term butthurt should be bludgeoned and thrown in an active volcano

Shots are nice, but scoring chances are better. I remember some old Flyers/Devils games where the Flyers would outshoot them to the tune of 40-16, and lose 4-2. It wasn't just goaltending difference, it was what the defense allowed and what the offense took. The Flyers would have 40 shots with 8-9 good scoring chances, and the Devils would have 16 shots with 12-13 good scoring chances. If you're able to work the puck around in the offensive zone and get good looks, while only giving up perimeter shots without screens, you've got a good chance.

So, if all things are equal, more shots = more goals. However, all things are far from equal.
- jmatchett383

I agree to an extent. More times than not, if you're getting 40+ shots a game, you'll win most games. But you're right about scoring chances. Get a boat load of them and you'll win 70% of your games.

Yeah, I've heard the theory a ton of times and it does obviously have merit. Anything that doubles in size is going to have to assume weaker assets to fill the void. After expansion the NHL would never have as strong of a product on the ice. The expansion in the late seventies was somewhat offset by European imports but the league was still weakened.

As far as Flyers making a 6 team league... I'd be hesitant to think anyone shy of Giroux would play in that league. I mean, is Coburn in the top 40 Dmen in the league? Is Voracek in the top 80 forwards? I'd think Mason might be in the top 15 maybe...
- mayorofangrytown

If you look back at the history of the league, 4th liners have always been specialists to some degree. There were players in AHL more skilled than most NHL 4th liners in the 50s and 60s but they weren't necessarily tough or good on the PK which was the traditional role of a 4th liner.

However you are right on the D: maybe Coburn sneaks in as a 6/7 guy but thats it

This Bellemare video is old but maybe some of you haven't seen it. My favorite goal is at 2:45.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efq5Yq2VVg#t=165
- Feanor

I have not seen this one. Is this the one where he punches her? Oh wait, different topic.

Well the theory has merit. For example, does Phil Esposito put 76 goals and 152 points in 70-71 if the NHL was still a 6 team league?

The answer is no, but, if he's playing on a team with Cashman, Hodge and most importantly Orr, he maybe puts up 50 and 100 which would be fantastic numbers in a 6 team league.

Another way to look at it is which current Flyers would be in the NHL if there were only 6 teams:
Forwards: Giroux and Voracek for sure, Simmonds as a 4th line energy guy and maybe Couturier as a 4th line PK specialist. Matt Read, cause he can play all forward positions might squeeze in as a spare forward.

D: Coburn for sure, and maybe AMac sneaks in as a 7th man or Streit as a 3rd pair pp specialist

G: no one. Mason would be a borderline backup at best in a 6 team league
- BiggE

6 teams would mean 78 forwards, 42 dmen, 12 goalies (13th forward and 7th dman on each team). The definites league wide for fowards would be (in no order): Crosby, Stamkos, Toews, Kane, Giroux, Malkin, Getzlaf, Perry, Seguin, Benn, Kopitar, Ovechkin, Kessel, Tavares, Hall, Sharp, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Pavelski, Backes, St. Louis, Hossa, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Backstrom, Bergeron, Carter, Iginla, plus a some others. I think Voracek would be in it and Simmonds might be on the bubble.

Of the dmen: Subban, Karlsson, Doughty, Chara, Weber, Suter, Keith, Seabrook, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Ekman-Larsson, Letang, McDonagh, Kronwall, Hedman. After that there are plenty of options. I'm not sure Coburn cracks the top 42

Goalies: Rask, Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Price, Bob, Varlamov, Miller. It's tough after that but I agree that Mason is not in that top 12.

So basically, you're saying that Downie happened?
- jmatchett383

Him, Vinny, Grossmann in December & January, Meszaros over Gustafsson, Gill over Gus in playoffs...

If you look back at the history of the league, 4th liners have always been specialists to some degree. There were players in AHL more skilled than most NHL 4th liners in the 50s and 60s but they weren't necessarily tough or good on the PK which was the traditional role of a 4th liner.

However you are right on the D: maybe Coburn sneaks in as a 6/7 guy but thats it
- BiggE

People always talk about the 50's, but we need to look further back, into the days of Eddie Shore, King Clancy, Auriel Joliat, Howie Morenz, Cyclone Taylor, Joe Malone, and one-eyed Frank McGee.

Ive said it before, anybody who uses the term butthurt should be bludgeoned and thrown in an active volcano
- KINGKENZO

opie used it multiple times the other day and i got the douche chills

Him, Vinny, Grossmann in December & January, Meszaros over Gustafsson, Gill over Gus in playoffs...
- Jsaquella

So the better option would have been to sit Vinny, Grossmann, and Meszaros for the majority of the season and to replace them with Gustafsson and 2 AHLers?

the guy was named The Flower, how tough could he have been?

- MBFlyerfan

He smoked a whole pack between periods