discuss

discuss
- senstroll

What are your ground rules?
Are we just looking at this single season, once it starts, or does anything from past performances allowed into this year's discussion?

Are we going Points Per Dollar or Points Per Pound on this one?

this is a ridiculous topic.....ryan is a great hockey player, but everyone (sens fans included) should admit that kessel is obviously better right now.

Sens fans, is there a defense of Eugene Melnyk going forward? Does anyone still want him in the driver's seat?

Sens fans, is there a defense of Eugene Melnyk going forward? Does anyone still want him in the driver's seat?
- Morris

What's the point of considering this. He owns the Team, and the Building, it does not matter what fans want, unless they offer to buy him out.

Whining about ownership is a waste of time.

this is a ridiculous topic.....ryan is a great hockey player, but everyone (sens fans included) should admit that kessel is obviously better right now.
- sensarmy_11

He did finally pass Ryan in PPG average, about three quarters of the way through last season, so he does have that edge right now.

What's the point of considering this. He owns the Team, and the Building, it does not matter what fans want, unless they offer to buy him out.

Whining about ownership is a waste of time.
- Doppleganger

I would just find it really frustrating as a fan. Almost like what's the point? Between winning cups and making dollars, he chooses dollars.

I would just find it really frustrating as a fan. Almost like what's the point? Between winning cups and making dollars, he chooses dollars.
- Morris

I guess if you're the type of fan who thinks if you spend to the cap it will guarantee a Cup, but it does not.

There have been been teams, pre cap, that spent tons of money without ever wining the Cup, and others that have drafted and developed players that have done just as good/bad as teams that handed out retirement contracts to veterans.

I would find it more frustrating to be a fan of one of the teams in the league that UFAs have no interest in signing with, and they have to rely totally on developing their own players after being at the bottom of the league for four or five years in a row and not even have a shot at the playoffs for even longer as they develop these players.

Spending to the cap ceiling doesn't guarantee a cup but not spending to the ceiling almost guarantees that you won't win a cup.

Oh this is a new thread? (frank), now it's going to be stuck on my threads list.

Spending to the cap ceiling doesn't guarantee a cup but not spending to the ceiling almost guarantees that you won't win a cup.

Oh this is a new thread? (frank), now it's going to be stuck on my threads list.
- daeth

That's more what I'm getting at. When push comes to shove, Melnyk is not going to okay the extra 500k to bring in an impact player. He's not going to pull the trigger on the sweetheart trade if it cost him bank. He's going to play hardball with his RFAs.

It's not always that those are the wrong calls. Columbus seems to have played the Johansen situation well for example, and Edmonton dodged a bullet by not having Clarkson opt for their more pricy contract. I'm not saying more money is always better, but I am saying that an ingrained culture of low spending, that is known to all 29 other teams, doesn't ever help you in the long run.

I guess if you're the type of fan who thinks if you spend to the cap it will guarantee a Cup, but it does not.

There have been been teams, pre cap, that spent tons of money without ever wining the Cup, and others that have drafted and developed players that have done just as good/bad as teams that handed out retirement contracts to veterans.

I would find it more frustrating to be a fan of one of the teams in the league that UFAs have no interest in signing with, and they have to rely totally on developing their own players after being at the bottom of the league for four or five years in a row and not even have a shot at the playoffs for even longer as they develop these players.
- Doppleganger

I'm not saying it isn't frustrating sometimes to be an Oilers fan. I am saying it seems like it would be frustrating to be a Sens fan.

I feel that now and in the future, Edmonton's ownership is going to be able to okay what management thinks will help them win. I don't think that's the case in Ottawa, and that would bug the hell out of me.

But to each their own. Again, I'm not trying to make this an us versus them thing.

I'm not saying it isn't frustrating sometimes to be an Oilers fan. I am saying it seems like it would be frustrating to be a Sens fan.

I feel that now and in the future, Edmonton's ownership is going to be able to okay what management thinks will help them win. I don't think that's the case in Ottawa, and that would bug the hell out of me.

But to each their own. Again, I'm not trying to make this an us versus them thing.
- Morris

Well I think you assessment of the Ottawa owner is not accurate. He has spent higher (closer to the cap) in the past when it was warranted, and is now spending less in what is hopefully the beginning of the the end of the re-building stage.

He will spend more in the up coming seasons when the team transitions to a playoff contending team, when all the young players today has developed as projected.

Spending right to the cap at this time in the teams' stage of re-build would be ridiculous, and would mean bringing in high priced UFAs and jettisoning all the young players.

What are your ground rules?
Are we just looking at this single season, once it starts, or does anything from past performances allowed into this year's discussion?
- Doppleganger

Just this single season nothing before

Just this single season nothing before
- senstroll

Phil's team has rough stretch in the schedule right out of the gate tonight. That might set the tone for his season, one way or another.

Just this single season nothing before
- senstroll

i think if both play the full 82 games, healthy, kessel still has a better year......but i think it will be close.

i would project each to have around 30-35 goals, but i'd give kessel the edge in assists.

i'd say:

ryan 35-35/70pts

kessel 35-45/80pts

i think if both play the full 82 games, healthy, kessel still has a better year......but i think it will be close.

i would project each to have around 30-35 goals, but i'd give kessel the edge in assists.

i'd say:

ryan 35-35/70pts

kessel 35-45/80pts
- sensarmy_11

I think Kessel can take it up another notch..if he can get some decent time with Kadri..or anyone else other than Bozak

my predictions are

Ryan 32g 36a
Kessel 39g 46a

I think Kessel can take it up another notch..if he can get some decent time with Kadri..or anyone else other than Bozak

my predictions are

Ryan 32g 36a
Kessel 39g 46a
- senstroll

i honestly can't see kessel being 20pts ahead of him, if both are healthy. i think the "karlsson factor" alone will boost ryan's points. you can almost guarantee that ryan and karlsson will be on the ice together as much as possible (both 5v5 and PP), which is always good for a forwards offensive numbers. no offense to rielly/gardiner/or phaneuf, but none of them have the offensive ability of karlsson.

not saying that ryan will outscore kessel as a result, but i think it will keep ryan within about 10pts of him.

Well I think you assessment of the Ottawa owner is not accurate. He has spent higher (closer to the cap) in the past when it was warranted, and is now spending less in what is hopefully the beginning of the the end of the re-building stage.

He will spend more in the up coming seasons when the team transitions to a playoff contending team, when all the young players today has developed as projected.

Spending right to the cap at this time in the teams' stage of re-build would be ridiculous, and would mean bringing in high priced UFAs and jettisoning all the young players.
- Doppleganger

We can agree to disagree. But I feel like he was a little early in pulling the chute towards a rebuild.

Also, I'm not faulting him for not spending to the cap. I just think there's a middle ground he's ignoring for economical reasons. If he was strong-arming an initiative of jettisoning all the young players for the sake of bringing in high priced UFAs, I'd be criticizing that too. The truth is that most teams operate somewhere in the middle of those two principles, and have since the first lockout.

Well I think you assessment of the Ottawa owner is not accurate. He has spent higher (closer to the cap) in the past when it was warranted, and is now spending less in what is hopefully the beginning of the the end of the re-building stage.

He will spend more in the up coming seasons when the team transitions to a playoff contending team, when all the young players today has developed as projected.

Spending right to the cap at this time in the teams' stage of re-build would be ridiculous, and would mean bringing in high priced UFAs and jettisoning all the young players.
- Doppleganger

Melnyk spent money when his finances were somewhat different. A billionaire when he bought he club, the Sens were a toy. After suffering some financial setbacks and a divorce, the Sens and Scotiabank Place are now the majority of his net worth. They are essentially his livelihood. Ryan got his deal because losing him would hurt the Sens finances more then keeping him, and with the cap going up EM was going to have to spend the money somewhere in years to come.

Melnyk spent money when his finances were somewhat different. A billionaire when he bought he club, the Sens were a toy. After suffering some financial setbacks and a divorce, the Sens and Scotiabank Place are now the majority of his net worth. They are essentially his livelihood. Ryan got his deal because losing him would hurt the Sens finances more then keeping him, and with the cap going up EM was going to have to spend the money somewhere in years to come.
- ght120

I don't know what you've been listening to, but he's still a billionaire, and his net worth from 2013 to 2014 has risen, although only a modest 3%.

The Senators and the CTC are NOT his livelihood as you suggest.

In a season or two when all the young players with ELCs need to be resigned, the payroll will move up accordingly

http://www.canadianbusine...00-the-full-2014-ranking/

Kessel is in the middle of the highest tier offensive players. Ryan is near the top of the next highest tier of offensive players. Neither offer much more than pure offense.

Therefore Kessel > Ryan

Kessel is in the middle of the highest tier offensive players. Ryan is near the top of the next highest tier of offensive players. Neither offer much more than pure offense.

Therefore Kessel > Ryan
- Cape Breton Bruins

Just this single season nothing before
- senstroll

neither have scored, so according to the parameters of this thread's discussion, you're expressing an opinion on past performance.



Kessel, Bozak and JVR all -2 last night.

neither have scored, so according to the parameters of this thread's discussion, you're expressing an opinion on past performance.



Kessel, Bozak and JVR all -2 last night.
- Doppleganger

Ok so we cannot use the past when discussion global warming anymore

neither have scored, so according to the parameters of this thread's discussion, you're expressing an opinion on past performance.



Kessel, Bozak and JVR all -2 last night.
- Doppleganger

they need to break that line up
Bozak is terrible. horrible defensively