would you trade Carter back for either Couturier or voracek?
- stayinthefnnet

I'd trade Voracek for Carter, absolutely. In a heartbeat.

Beautiful line up with the forwards but in a cap world not sure it would have been possible. Especially if Bobrovsky would have wanted big money.

The defense was ignored for far too long when everyone knew Pronger and Timonen wouldn't be able to hold up for forever. It bit them in the ass.

The biggest issue imo during that whole "core transition phase" was the best d-man the team really brought back in any deal was Luke Schenn.
- flyer_nutter

They lacked picks to restock the defense after the Pronger trade.

I think Tomahawk means if there was no Pronger trade, no expending the assets for him, and building off the foundation of the 2008 team that went to the ECF

Carter is Patrick Marleau but with the luxury of not having to carry every line he's ever been on.
- BINGO!

Funny, that's the first player who came to mind for me too

However, the range of the battery is stil in question which is really the biggest hurdle for all electric cars.
- coffee junkie

Telsa solved that problem by building a nationwide network of solar-powered charging stations... that are free to use for the life of every vehicle:

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

The interesting thing is that if he was playing back then like he has since being united with those two kids, he probably never gets traded. Even besides the off-ice stuff...the club I think soured a little bit on his untapped potential.

And why did I think of that Pinnochio / Geico ad as soon as I said that?
- TheGreat28

Carter was just as good when he was here, as he is now. He just got a bum rap due to being injured a lot in the playoffs.

Beautiful line up with the forwards but in a cap world not sure it would have been possible. Especially if Bobrovsky would have wanted big money.

The defense was ignored for far too long when everyone knew Pronger and Timonen wouldn't be able to hold up for forever. It bit them in the ass.

The biggest issue imo during that whole "core transition phase" was the best d-man the team really brought back in any deal was Luke Schenn.
- flyer_nutter

Hell, even trading Hartnell, if you were hell-bent on doing that, why not get a defenseman, even a second or third-pair kind of player?

I understand it isn't always that simple -- you can't take what other teams aren't offering -- but I agree: One of the trades since 2012 has to bring back a Top 6 defender better than Schenn

I just don't think Carter wanted to play wing, or even embraced it enough. WE all thought he had the perfect tools to play the position...but he never wanted to.

He was decent on LA at wing, but really took off when they moved him to center and put him with Pearson and Toffoli.
- TheGreat28

I don't think that is true. I think he just needed some time to adjust to playing the wing. I think he'll play where ever you want him too!

I don't know. Doughty makes that entire thing go, or Chara, or Keith...they still wouldn't have that, or might not have.

Hell, I think they could fake it right now, right this second, if they had a defenseman like that to go with Coburn.
- AllInForFlyers

I absolutely agree. I know it's tiresome to talk about, but I, as I'm sure many did, prayed and prayed that Nashville wouldn't match that offer sheet.

I'd trade Voracek for Carter, absolutely. In a heartbeat.
- MJL

Even with the team as it is? Or not considering the make up of the current Flyers roster. We'd have even more centers than we already do.

I absolutely agree. I know it's tiresome to talk about, but I, as I'm sure many did, prayed and prayed that Nashville wouldn't match that offer sheet.
- mcefalu

I understand why they did it, but still can't believe they did

Even with the team as it is? Or not considering the make up of the current Flyers roster. We'd have even more centers than we already do.
- mcefalu

Carter will be playing the Wing.

I don't know. Doughty makes that entire thing go, or Chara, or Keith...they still wouldn't have that, or might not have.

Hell, I think they could fake it right now, right this second, if they had a defenseman like that to go with Coburn.
- AllInForFlyers

I think we're just all accustomed to being fixated on that hole at 1D (like 1G before). That guy is important, but not having him won't drag an otherwise terrific team down too much, as long as there is quality depth in the 2-7 slots.

I don't know. Doughty makes that entire thing go, or Chara, or Keith...they still wouldn't have that, or might not have.

Hell, I think they could fake it right now, right this second, if they had a defenseman like that to go with Coburn.
- AllInForFlyers

absolutely. put doughty on the flyers. night and day.

I think we're just all accustomed to being fixated on that hole at 1D (like 1G before). That guy is important, but not having him won't drag an otherwise terrific team down too much, as long as there is quality depth in the 2-7 slots.
- Tomahawk

I disagree with that. LA is a terrific team, take away Doughty, and they'd still be a good team, but they would be drastically worse. That dominating #1 Defenseman is everything to a top team. You have to have the other pieces around that player, but lose that player, and it's bad news. Losing Chara is going to have a big effect on Boston.

If Homer had the patience, and a little more management prowess, I firmly believe that this team would be smack dab in the middle of a solid 4-5 window to contend right now, with G, Richie, Carts, Coburn, Bob and JvR leading the way. Probably would be in the same league as BOS/CHI/LA, and maybe even have a Cup already.

But given the situation that they were in -- committing the Bryzaster, with all the eggs in the Pronger basket , and no freakin' cap space -- that reset button had to be pushed.

So yeah... the trades themselves were good, but the situation that forced them... I wouldn't do that part again.
- Tomahawk

Just to be clear, Richards and Carter were traded BEFORE Pronger got hurt to make room for the Bryzaster. They wanted Bryz more than they wanted Carter/Richards and couldn't sign Bryz until they were gone due to the cap constraints.

absolutely. put doughty on the flyers. night and day.
- stayinthefnnet

And everyone else slotted into the right place, and the Flyers defense would all of a sudden be a pretty good defense.

Just to be clear, Richards and Carter were traded BEFORE Pronger got hurt to make room for the Bryzaster. They wanted Bryz more than they wanted Carter/Richards and couldn't sign Bryz until they were gone due to the cap constraints.
- Flyers_01

Far more went into trading Richards and Carter, then just wanting to sign Bryzgalov. And the Flyers could've kept both Richards and Carter, and still signed Bryzgalov.

Just to be clear, Richards and Carter were traded BEFORE Pronger got hurt to make room for the Bryzaster. They wanted Bryz more than they wanted Carter/Richards and couldn't sign Bryz until they were gone due to the cap constraints.
- Flyers_01

I'm talking about a scenario where they never made the Pronger deal at all.

And everyone else slotted into the right place, and the Flyers defense would all of a sudden be a pretty good defense.
- MJL

yeah. and i think he would bring a big upgrade in the quality of forward play as well, just having that person to bring up the puck/distribute.

absolutely. put doughty on the flyers. night and day.
- stayinthefnnet

Sure. It'd be like putting a Porsche engine into a VW bug.

You add a Doughty or similar, suddenly there's 25 minutes a night that you no longer have to worry about as a coach. Plug him in and forget about it.

Then you don't have MacDonald, Streit, Grossmann, Schenn or Del Zotto having to assume to large a role. That's the biggest issue with the Flyers D. As individuals they're not bad. As a group, they need an alpha dog.

I'm talking about a scenario where they never made the Pronger deal at all.
- Tomahawk

Imagine they don't make the deal. They keep Lupul and Sbisa, have a shot to draft Ryan O'Reilly and Justin Faulk, maybe have the assets to swing a deal for a good, younger defenseman than Pronger to develop him, or use Carter or Richards to add a good defenseman.

It's likely the assets spent to add Grossmann & Kubina don't get spent, which opens the door to guys like Ville Pokka and Sebastien Collberg. If they had drafted O'Reilly, they probably take Dougie Hamilton instead of Couturier.

John Scott gets 2 games for leaving the bench to fight. It was a legal line change, but Scott directly started a fight, which is an reviewable offense.

Imagine they don't make the deal. They keep Lupul and Sbisa, have a shot to draft Ryan O'Reilly and Justin Faulk, maybe have the assets to swing a deal for a good, younger defenseman than Pronger to develop him, or use Carter or Richards to add a good defenseman.

It's likely the assets spent to add Grossmann & Kubina don't get spent, which opens the door to guys like Ville Pokka and Sebastien Collberg. If they had drafted O'Reilly, they probably take Dougie Hamilton instead of Couturier.
- Jsaquella

Pretty much exactly what was bouncing around in my head.

if you could undue either of those two trades, would you?
- stayinthefnnet

Its an interesting conundrum. I like what we got for Carter more than what we got for Richards, but even when the trades went down , I would have rather kept Carter.

All that being said I think what we got is better than what we traded away.....though I believe the best player in the whole thing is Carter.

Pretty much exactly what was bouncing around in my head.
- Tomahawk

As excited as I was for a Weber arrival, it would mean no Morin, no Sanheim, no first rounder in 2015 or 2016. Could also mean other players gone, because of the AAV of Weber's deal(actually that part isn't that bad)