To say that anyone is a Fool on believing that krueger should have kept is wrong,and I'm suprise with that coming from you,There's not way you or me or anyone could say if Krueger would had done better or not if kept and giving the extra players MacT have brough in,but I can certanily say that so far under Eakins there's 0 improvement after A Full season and 12 games in so far this new season.
- AlEx_OiL

We've slipped back in terms of our record, but I would argue we are playing better, especially 5 v 5.

We have certainly backslid on the PP and the PK both in terms of play and production. Krueger is better at coaching special teams than Eakins. I will admit that.

If you can say for certain that Eakins doesn't have the team playing better, I can say for certain that any team playing Krueger's system was never going to get better than they showed that season.

It's because he only comes here to troll, he isn't liked by anyone here so he took it upon himself to come here after losses and try to annoy the fanbase as much as possible. You'll never see him on these boards when the Oilers are doing ok. Nobody takes him serious and I am baffled why anyone actually responds to anything he writes and gives him the attention he so sorely craves. I have a feeling his parents didn't love him too much as a kid.
- StoopLemur

Where do I rank?
- Jeropotato

You're in my top 3 bud! I won't tell you where in the top 3 though.

What are you thinking?

I wouldn't give up Petry. I'd give up Jultz and another minor piece.
- ProfessorChaos

I was thinking they're one of the teams that could be in the market for a scoring winger (Purcell, Pouliot, Perron, Eberle, Yakupov)

We've slipped back in terms of our record, but I would argue we are playing better, especially 5 v 5.

We have certainly backslid on the PP and the PK both in terms of play and production. Krueger is better at coaching special teams than Eakins. I will admit that.

If you can say for certain that Eakins doesn't have the team playing better, I can say for certain that any team playing Krueger's system was never going to get better than they showed that season.
- Morris

The numbers suggest otherwise. Not substantially, mind you, and it certainly appears to be much better early this season, but Krueger's Oilers had slightly better control of the play 5 on 5 than last years Oilers, anyway.

Where do I rank?
- Jeropotato

69th

We've slipped back in terms of our record, but I would argue we are playing better, especially 5 v 5.

We have certainly backslid on the PP and the PK both in terms of play and production. Krueger is better at coaching special teams than Eakins. I will admit that.

If you can say for certain that Eakins doesn't have the team playing better, I can say for certain that any team playing Krueger's system was never going to get better than they showed that season.
- Morris

You compare Krueger/Eakins base only on special teams,remember Krueger had the team only for 48 games,the changes MacT did last 2 season by bringing more players to improve the team for Eakins should have this team improve some already,Eakins had a Full season and pre-season his first year plus new players and now this new season much of the same by MacT brings more help but where is the improvement,5v5?where's the Oil at the standings so far?

Edmonton averaged 26.9 5-on-5 shots for per 60 minutes during the lockout season with 32.2 against.

The next year, they averaged 26.1 5-on-5 shots for per 60. Exact same 5-on-5 shots against at 32.2.

Be curious to see how it plays out this year when all is said and done.
- BINGO!

Eakins had a vicious adjustment period. He wasn't ready to coach the team coming out of the gates last year imo and one of the chief reasons I argued he shouldn't be fired was not because of his achievement, but because it would continue the terrible precedent of excusing the players by sacrificing the coach.

Towards the end of last year and especially this year however, I see a huge improvement. I wonder if it's there quantitatively.

I'll agree, as will most people, that Eakins is most likely on thin ice. But, at the same time, how can a coach control when players get injured and lesser players have to take those spots?

I would expect that Eakins remains as coach for the remainder of this season and then, if results are still terrible, then something drastic will take place.
- ProfessorChaos

I really don't know one way or another. id be hesitant to stick with things if they continue on this path (whether it be through coaching change/roster shakeup or both) but this team's flaws are so much deeper than the single minded issues that so many parrot. those people either don't or cant grasp much deeper issues imo

The numbers suggest otherwise. Not substantially, mind you, and it certainly appears to be much better early this season, but Krueger's Oilers had slightly better control of the play 5 on 5 than last years Oilers, anyway.
- BINGO!

Well if we're talking quantitatively, I'd love to define control by possession in close games, and zone entries/exits. I think that'd give a better picture than shots for and shots against.

If we're talking about shots, you open it up to talking about shot quality. If we're talking about possession, it's better to use a possession stat like Corsi.

Plus, the way the goaltending varied adds a lot of noise to the convo that's difficult to parse.

Eakins had a vicious adjustment period. He wasn't ready to coach the team coming out of the gates last year imo and one of the chief reasons I argued he shouldn't be fired was not because of his achievement, but because it would continue the terrible precedent of excusing the players by sacrificing the coach.

Towards the end of last year and especially this year however, I see a huge improvement. I wonder if it's there quantitatively.
- Morris

We all know this team still need few more players but to say that this team have improve with Eakins then I might be looking at the wrong standings from last season and this season so far.

You compare Krueger/Eakins base only on special teams,remember Krueger had the team only for 48 games,the changes MacT did last 2 season by bringing more players to improve the team for Eakins should have this team improve some already,Eakins had a Full season and pre-season his first year plus new players and now this new season much of the same by MacT brings more help but where is the improvement,5v5?where's the Oil at the standings so far?
- AlEx_OiL

I'm not arguing Eakins is a god. I'm saying that it's ludicrous to think we'd be substantially better with Krueger.

If you want to compromise, I'll give you this: We're poop with Eakins, and we'd be poop with Krueger. Read up on his system or look back at those games, and you'll see how insane his system was and how it couldn't run like that forever.

I really don't know one way or another. id be hesitant to stick with things if they continue on this path (whether it be through coaching change/roster shakeup or both) but this team's flaws are so much deeper than single minded issues that so many parrot.
- hugefemale dog77

I think the biggest issues with this team is the lack of a top pairing D that can play a responsible 25+ mins per night and handle the top end talent of other teams and the lack of stable goaltending. Scrivens has been ok but the jury is far from out on him. All you have to do is look at Calgary as an example, their goalies are playing way above their normal levels and Gio/Brodie have been exceptional which help eliminate the little mistakes made by younger players, etc.
Another issue may be the fitness level of Eakins practices, etc...I remember when we traded Smid and he said that he could believe the tempo at the Flames practices and that he couldn't handle them when he first got there.

Eakins had a vicious adjustment period. He wasn't ready to coach the team coming out of the gates last year imo and one of the chief reasons I argued he shouldn't be fired was not because of his achievement, but because it would continue the terrible precedent of excusing the players by sacrificing the coach.

Towards the end of last year and especially this year however, I see a huge improvement. I wonder if it's there quantitatively.
- Morris

For me imo what the Oilers should do to improve is;

Bring a Coach with NHL experience.
trade Eberle + for the needs.
trade Schultz + and sign Petry(if He wants to stay)

We all know this team still need few more players but to say that this team have improve with Eakins then I might be looking at the wrong standings from last season and this season so far.
- AlEx_OiL

When you watch the games, you don't get the sense the team is, on the whole, playing better than in 2012-2013? I do.

We can agree to disagree about that point, but if I may make a suggestion to you, it's this: emphasize the value of coaching by analyzing the Oilers coaching needs, finding another NHL-calibre coach who coaches that way, and making an intelligible argument that we'd be light years better off with that guy than we are now with Eakins.

Stop talking about what-ifs with Ralph "I don't coach in professional hockey anywhere anymore" Krueger and how we'd be a whole points 3 higher in the standings.

I think the biggest issues with this team is the lack of a top pairing D that can play a responsible 25+ mins per night and handle the top end talent of other teams and and the lack of stable goaltending. Scrivens has been ok but the jury is far from out on him. All you have to do is look at Calgary as an example, their goalies are playing way above their normal levels and Gio/Brodie have been exceptional which help eliminate the little mistakes made by younger players, etc.
Another issue may be the fitness level of Eakins practices, etc...I remember when we traded Smid and he said that he could believe the tempo at the Flames practices and that he couldn't handle them when he first got there.
- StoopLemur

Yup, we need to trade for a D-man that is actually coveted by another team and not for the swill that we keep trading away for mid round picks at the deadline.

For me imo what the Oilers should do to improve is;

Bring a Coach with NHL experience.
trade Eberle + for the needs.
trade Schultz + and sign Petry(if He wants to stay)
- AlEx_OiL

1) depends on the coach
2) and 3) I agree in principle, but let's not do it simply for the sake of doing it.

In fact, let's not do any of those three for the sake of doing it.

I'm not arguing Eakins is a god. I'm saying that it's ludicrous to think we'd be substantially better with Krueger.

If you want to compromise, I'll give you this: We're poop with Eakins, and we'd be poop with Krueger. Read up on his system or look back at those games, and you'll see how insane his system was and how it couldn't run like that forever.
- Morris

so much conjecture.....

Krueger finished 7th last in a shortened season and was well on his way to nose diving further. they had some decent games early and then lost 9/10 in crunch time and we're done. with a group that had been playing together for multiple months beforehand. maybe the only core group that had that benefit. and he had much better goaltending that Eakins has had during those brutal periods that skew his totals.
that team was absolutely not better, nor did it play better than any squad before or since.

I'm not arguing Eakins is a god. I'm saying that it's ludicrous to think we'd be substantially better with Krueger.

If you want to compromise, I'll give you this: We're poop with Eakins, and we'd be poop with Krueger. Read up on his system or look back at those games, and you'll see how insane his system was and how it couldn't run like that forever.
- Morris

Again you and I or anyone can't say that for sure since he never had the chance to Coach the Oil with all this new players,so to your compromise I will only say this,lets wait till half of the season and will see where this team is at the standings and from there we can talk about the improvement your talking about.

1) depends on the coach
2) and 3) I agree in principle, but let's not do it simply for the sake of doing it.

In fact, let's not do any of those three for the sake of doing it.
- Morris

is not for the sake of doing it,if the Oil are going to trade any of those players I mention is to improve in other areas,meaning MacT can't let himself get robbed in a trade.

Again you and I or anyone can't say that for sure since he never had the chance to Coach the Oil with all this new players,so to your compromise I will only say this,lets wait till half of the season and will see where this team is at the standings and from there we can talk about the improvement your talking about.
- AlEx_OiL

Well in that case there's no way to deny that I would be a better coach than Dallas Eakins. Even though I haven't played organized hockey since Bantam, there's no way to argue that I couldn't easily take this team to the stanley cup for the next decade and win the Jack Adams six times in the process.

Glad we got that straightened. Hopefully MacT can give me a Skype

is not for the sake of doing it,if the Oil are going to trade any of those players I mention is to improve in other areas,meaning MacT can't let himself get robbed in a trade.
- AlEx_OiL

Well obviously. If there's a trade to make the team better, do it....

but that applies to every team at every moment, doesn't it?

When you watch the games, you don't get the sense the team is, on the whole, playing better than in 2012-2013? I do.

We can agree to disagree about that point, but if I may make a suggestion to you, it's this: emphasize the value of coaching by analyzing the Oilers coaching needs, finding another NHL-calibre coach who coaches that way, and making an intelligible argument that we'd be light years better off with that guy than we are now with Eakins.

Stop talking about what-ifs with Ralph "I don't coach in professional hockey anywhere anymore" Krueger and how we'd be a whole points 3 higher in the standings.
- Morris

wow

this


all of it

Well in that case there's no way to deny that I would be a better coach than Dallas Eakins. Even though I haven't played organized hockey since Bantam, there's no way to argue that I couldn't easily take this team to the stanley cup for the next decade and win the Jack Adams six times in the process.

Glad we got that straightened. Hopefully MacT can give me a Skype
- Morris

hey you never know till giving the chance right?question if the Oil finish same as last season or two spots up,would you still believe there was a improvement?

Well if we're talking quantitatively, I'd love to define control by possession in close games, and zone entries/exits. I think that'd give a better picture than shots for and shots against.

If we're talking about shots, you open it up to talking about shot quality. If we're talking about possession, it's better to use a possession stat like Corsi.

Plus, the way the goaltending varied adds a lot of noise to the convo that's difficult to parse.
- Morris

All very fair points. This is where I prefer to leave it to those who delve deeper than I. Personally, I try to just generally ignore goaltending altogether and look at it as a seperate entity from the team. I know that's foolhardy, but it simplifies things for someone who's still learning.