Hartnell's contract wasn't very friendly in terms of length. In order of the Flyers to rid themselves of it they had to give up production now, for a cooked player with a slightly worse contract albeit shorter in term. The Flyers will eat poop until Umberger's contract is up. No way around it.
- PLindbergh31

I know his contract wasn't the best but he is a much better player than RJ who was getting scratched from CBJ's lineup.
I guess we will never know if there was a better deal out there.

Maybe... out of all the likely outcomes, that is the one that probably hurts the least all around.
- Tomahawk

I just wish the Flyers had two more buyouts

I just wish the Flyers had two more buyouts
- PhillySportsGuy

I wish they had 25. (frank) em all

I wish they had 25. (frank) em all
- Giroux_Is_God

I think it's a pretty even trade. Shelby Miller is no future scrub, that's for sure.

Their pitching is gonna be nasty for a long time now between Teheran, Miller, and Kimbrel on the back end. Yowza.
- Giroux_Is_God

Pitching is overrated now. It's a dead ball era. Very few teams have strong lineups anymore. Pretty much every team has great bullpen arms and quality starters. The Giants won with one good starter and a makeshift bullpen. The royals almost won without any great starting pitching and a great bullpen.

I think starting pitchers value are at an all time low over the last 30 years. Having a strong bullpen and starting lineup is more important these days. I hope someone offers a ton for Hamels

Also true.

I think it's safe to assume the Flyers explored all options though. Kicked the tires with other teams and looked for "better" deals.

I do think, simply on an on paper basis, Hartnell could have reeled in a pick at least along with an umberger caliber player.
- Giroux_Is_God[Edit: but again, maybe the flyers thought that too, but unfortunately this was the best deal on the table] It sucks, but that's the way it went down. female doging will change nothing, whether you're "defending" it or not.

They did get a pick

I wish they had 25. (frank) em all
- Giroux_Is_God

Except Akeson. He stays

Also true.

I think it's safe to assume the Flyers explored all options though. Kicked the tires with other teams and looked for "better" deals.

I do think, simply on an on paper basis, Hartnell could have reeled in a pick at least along with an umberger caliber player.
- Giroux_Is_God[Edit: but again, maybe the flyers thought that too, but unfortunately this was the best deal on the table] It sucks, but that's the way it went down. female doging will change nothing, whether you're "defending" it or not.

Sadly, I think the Flyers picked Umberger as their target.

They did get a pick
- Jsaquella

?

Normally I would say no to breaking up g and jake.

But the flyers need to see if jake can effectively drag vinny with him up the ice for the sole purpose of increasing vinnys trade value.

This season had become about two things

1. Upping vinnys trade value at all costs
2. Get a high 2nd for one of grossman/l schenn or a 1st for coburn in this summer's draft.

So you can only judge a players "averageness" based on what they will do offensively? That seems to be what you are trying to convince us to believe.
- MBFlyerfan

I havent seen his above average defense yet sooo this is not going in your favor right now. just stop.

?
- jak521

yeah, the Flyers got a 4th round pick along with Dumpberger

If the flyers can get vinny to the point where we'd have to eat 1 million of his salary a high and send out a 4th rounder also for whoever, Tim sestito. They have to pull that trigger

Sadly, I think the Flyers picked Umberger as their target.
- jak521

I mean if you think that, fine. I certainly would be upset of that was the case.

But we don't know that. Only about 25 people on this planet know the true, 100% answer to that question.

Us assuming one thing or the other and using that as a basis for argument is silly.

No, not calling you out for arguing. And yes, I know I said "it's safe to assume they looked for something better". But at the end of the day, everyone needs to realize we will never have a clue about the " what ifs".

The play of the players shows it was a bad trade. Unfortunately. But you won't see me arguing tooth and nail about it because I think it's pointless

See that is where you are wrong. Hartnell may be better now but he has 5 years left on his contract, Umberger 2. In 2 years is Harntell going to be the same player? Hartnell is on the Decline and in 2-3 years he will be like Umberger without the defensive skill and the PK ability. Fact is Hartnell would likely be an anchor at that point in his career and we will need that capspace to resign Voracek, Schenn, Coturier ect.

They did get a pick
- Jsaquella

Wait they did?

Sadly, I think the Flyers picked Umberger as their target.
- jak521

agreed (sorry giggy)

See that is where you are wrong. Hartnell may be better now but he has 5 years left on his contract, Umberger 2. In 2 years is Harntell going to be the same player? Hartnell is on the Decline and in 2-3 years he will be like Umberger without the defensive skill and the PK ability. Fact is Hartnell would likely be an anchor at that point in his career and we will need that capspace to resign Voracek, Schenn, Coturier ect.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Thats exactly why he was traded.

How long do they keep this Umberger debacle up? Surely not all season, RIGHT??

- PLindbergh31

Jeezzzzz

- PLindbergh31

2 more years!
2 more years!!

Back-reading through a lot of the posts, it's kinda crazy how important Raffl has seemingly become to the team. He's one of my favorite players, his work ethic, grit, quick rise from AHL rookie to NHL rookie some 11 games later to a core member of the team all make him easy to like. Plus all the nicknames.

2 more years!
2 more years!!
- Just5

All the way with Umby!