The quicker we lose Umberger the better.
- BiggE

When Raffl returns, if it was up to me, I'd bring up Laughton and go with:

Raffl-G-Jake
Schenn-Couturier-Read
Bellemare-Laughton-Simmonds
Rinaldo-VLC-Akeson
Spare: VDV
Waived: Umberger

Yes, the trouble is, through the first 16 games, there's been one reliable pair. At some point performance has to matter more than a coach's stubborn resistance to split a pair of players up.
- Jsaquella

I think as long as the Flyers hang around .500, you won't see them split up. It's gonna take a big-time losing streak - 7 or 8 games out of 10, before he makes a change, IMO.

I think at this point in his career Vinnie needs a player like Jake - a winger who can carry the puck into the zone and hold onto it until Vinnie catches up to the play. There is only one guy like that on the team however.

You absolutely can blame him, to some extent. He's been dealt a poor hand, but he's not playing it especially well.

He has juggled lines, but he's refused to split his pairs up. Giroux has steadfastly remained with Voracek, Couturier with Read and Umberger with Lecavalier, when the latter has played.

He's got a poorly performing playmaker type on a 4th line with an energy player and a grinder. He's got two under performing veterans dragging down just about everyone who joins them. He should look at making real changes, not shuffling Schenn & Simmonds in the top 6 and Akeson and VandeVelde in the bottom 6.
- Jsaquella

The changes he has been making haven't been real changes? He moved Schenn to the Couturier line, and it temporarily boosted that line. He tried to get Simmonds going again, because he wasn't a fit on the Lecavalier line, so he tried him on the top line at LW. He moved Schenn back to the top line, and he responded with two goals, but they weren't "real" changes. He has had one line playing consistent strong hockey, so he's reluctant to change that duo. Can you blame him? If he separates Voracek and giroux, and that doesn't work, then he'll be criticized for that. So it's been pretty much criticism for whatever Berube has done. He has a forward roster where all the pieces don't fit, but he hasn't been playing it especially well. As if some fans have all the answers.

At GM meetings i talk to teams that need d help and look at what possibly Coburn could bring back. I know what he does for this team but i also know this team isn't a cup contender. If i could get a solid winger to play with Couturier line I would really have to think about making the deal. Would Dallas move Nichushkin for Coburn and 3rd rounder? I don't know but I think he could be an asset to bring in some value.
- J35Bacher

I think it would take a lot more than that to get Nichushkin. I'd actually consider moving Coburn and Laughton at the TDL for a top-tier winger prospect. I'm talking about someone of an Ehlers, Mantha or a Kucherov. I'm not saying you'd get any of those specific guys, someone of that ilk.

When Raffl returns, if it was up to me, I'd bring up Laughton and go with:

Raffl-G-Jake
Schenn-Couturier-Read
Bellemare-Laughton-Simmonds
Rinaldo-VLC-Akeson
Spare: VDV
Waived: Umberger
- BiggE

Like it. But I would call every GM first and beg them for a 6th rounder or make a charitable donation in return for Umberger.
I think we will just have to eat his contract though

Yes, the trouble is, through the first 16 games, there's been one reliable pair. At some point performance has to matter more than a coach's stubborn resistance to split a pair of players up.
- Jsaquella

I don't think sticking with something that is working very well, which is Giroux and Voracek, can be considered stubborn resistance. I would like to see it done, to see what happens, but I'm not going to criticize berube for not breaking them up. Simply because that criticism in unfair and unwarranted.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Schenn & Simmonds Switch; Practice Updates
- bmeltzer

if the flyers decided to move coburn today, what do you realistically think they could get in return? thanks.

When does the answer become: they just don't have the talent to fill out 3 good lines and a solid 4th?
- BiggE

it's the answer here now. Never from the teams marketing department selling suites and season tix. There ought to be a truth in labeling thing for sports teams like the information on food packaging.
please feel free to take that idea and expand.
I will start
VL near end of best used by date.dented can

I think as long as the Flyers hang around .500, you won't see them split up. It's gonna take a big-time losing streak - 7 or 8 games out of 10, before he makes a change, IMO.

I think at this point in his career Vinnie needs a player like Jake - a winger who can carry the puck into the zone and hold onto it until Vinnie catches up to the play. There is only one guy like that on the team however.
- TheGreat28

It probably will take that. The trouble is, right now they're a one line team, or at best a two line team.

The other lines simply are not producing. Umberger & Lecavalier together has been awful. Yet, unless one of them is hurt, it's been a pretty consistent pair. I get that the players are largely underperforming, but is the coach doing enough to give them optimal linemates?

Not sure that he is.

VL near end of best used by date.dented can
- Steelmanpa

I'd say he's past expired at this point.

I'd say he's past expired at this point.
- Tomahawk

Outstanding. Hoping for more on other players.

I'd say he's past expired at this point.
- Tomahawk

He had 12 shot attempts last game. He's got jump. No reason to split him and Umberger.

I dont think management is a bit surprised, this is a 500 team and with this D Mason has to have his A game every game

Remember when we all thought the Umberger for Hartnell trade was going to be close to a lateral transaction. I was right there thinking the defensive ability, coupled with the discipline, and maybe 60-65% of the offensive production would be near a wash.
Fun times indeed.

Remember when we all thought the Umberger for Hartnell trade was going to be close to a lateral transaction. I was right there thinking the defensive ability, coupled with the discipline, and maybe 60-65% of the offensive production would be near a wash.
Fun times indeed.
- PLindbergh31

It's been a disaster.

He had 12 shot attempts last game. He's got jump. No reason to split him and Umberger.
- Jsaquella

It probably will take that. The trouble is, right now they're a one line team, or at best a two line team.

The other lines simply are not producing. Umberger & Lecavalier together has been awful. Yet, unless one of them is hurt, it's been a pretty consistent pair. I get that the players are largely underperforming, but is the coach doing enough to give them optimal linemates?

Not sure that he is.
- Jsaquella

It kind of goes back to our conversation a few weeks ago. The Flyers just don't have enough creative offensive talent. Sure, they have guys like Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier who could put up decent points. But they need more skill, preferably in one winger and one center.

I see the top 9 in 2 years as:

Winger X - Giroux - Vorachek
Raffl/Aube-Kubel - Center X - Simmonds
Schenn - Couturier - Read

I would look to draft one of the two open positions, and trade a combination of Laughton & Coburn to get the other one. You know who I want in the draft - Strome. So trading for a LW sometime this year or next would be ideal. Then just let the D prospects grow into the role.

The next year and a half would be rough with this plan. But after that they could be strong.

Obviously the key is getting rid of Umberger and Vinnie. Flyers best hope on Vinnie might be that he has enough and retires.

He had 12 shot attempts last game. He's got jump. No reason to split him and Umberger.
- Jsaquella

Those two combined for two of the best chances in the first period of the Montreal game. And Lecavalier was far more involved offensively then he was in previous games since coming off of injury. Not going to say that they are all of a sudden going to start clicking, but it's a good sign. Lecavalier needs to do a much better job with shot selection, and in getting the puck on net. Lecavalier had a number of quality chances in the game, and if he keeps getting those chances, he'll make his fair share of plays. Playing Bellemare on that line makes a difference. I'd move Umberger to the 4th line, but the issue is with Raffl hurt, they're short on LW's.

Remember when we all thought the Umberger for Hartnell trade was going to be close to a lateral transaction. I was right there thinking the defensive ability, coupled with the discipline, and maybe 60-65% of the offensive production would be near a wash.
Fun times indeed.
- PLindbergh31

They might as well throw Vinny and RJ into their bottom 6 mix of players and just start drawing configurations for the 3rd and 4th out of a hat. It can't be any worse.

Remember when we all thought the Umberger for Hartnell trade was going to be close to a lateral transaction. I was right there thinking the defensive ability, coupled with the discipline, and maybe 60-65% of the offensive production would be near a wash.
Fun times indeed.
- PLindbergh31

Well, I hated that trade from the get go. But then again, I kinda like the Vinnie signing so I guess it cancels out

It's been a disaster.
- Jsaquella

hey hey. We also got a 3rd rounder in that trade. Dont forget that!

It kind of goes back to our conversation a few weeks ago. The Flyers just don't have enough creative offensive talent. Sure, they have guys like Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier who could put up decent points. But they need more skill, preferably in one winger and one center.


- TheGreat28

They need another puck carrying playmaker at forward. Preferably a LW.

Remember when we all thought the Umberger for Hartnell trade was going to be close to a lateral transaction. I was right there thinking the defensive ability, coupled with the discipline, and maybe 60-65% of the offensive production would be near a wash.
Fun times indeed.
- PLindbergh31

I never thought that. I went out and got hammered to drink my sorrow away

It's been a disaster.
- Jsaquella

Hard to look at the last two years of Hartnell's contract to see this paying dividends, when Umberger is going to be an anchor here for the rest of this year, then 2 more years.