Hall is missed as he was also a good face off man. I was just thinking If Talbot was still on this team maybe just maybe Hextall would have looked for a better deal than what he received for Hartnell. Talbot also worked well on PK and we were told that Zombie would bring a solid D game and unfortunately he just has not even shown up to the state of PA.
- 3flyerkids

No way. Umberger on his 3-year, $4.6M deal is way better than Talbot on his 2-year, $1.75M deal.

Flyers just need to suck it up until Raffl gets back -- trades don't appear to be a real answer and I have no problem with Laughton and the other young guys learning on the farm

I want them to make the playoffs, think they can. Think they wiil, somehow. But some of these guys need to play better, and I don't know that all of them are capable. Some can, but I have doubts about some others
- AllInForFlyers

They do have to perform better. No question. I think they need to be put in a better position to do so, but it's not assigning blame, it's more chicken and egg and what comes first.

If they played better, there'd be no reason to adjust lines. However, given the poor play after the break, I'd like to see more optimal lines. That's not just calling for the coach considering splitting up Giroux and Voracek, it's calling for the coach to consider splitting Lecavalier and Umberger and perhaps even Couturier and Read.

Those are the pairs that haven't been effective enough.

Which one is that, and how will it be addressed?
- jmatchett383

With the way Umberger is going, i have no doubts that contract is getting bought out

I didn't mind it at the time, or afterward. Raffl and now Bellemare, have replaced what Talbot brought, and Downie was pretty effective for most of November and that line was really solid for the Flyers, until Downie had to miss time. Then Vinny got plopped there and they lost effectiveness.

Talbot's $1.75mm cap hit wasn't bad, but he's not especially missed. The Flyers miss what Adam hall brought more, especially on the PK
- Jsaquella

You know, often when a player is traded they either really spike in the first few weeks with the new team, or really really struggle. Then over time they normalize to what they really are as a player. To me Downie was never gonna be that true offensive spark the team needed. But if you read all the quotes at the time, that is what they thought he would be. He was even mentioned as a 1st line winger by Homer, and actually by a lot of people here too.

My only hope for Umberger is that maybe he's not acclimated yet. Maybe in another month or two he finds his game. Go back to Hartnell's 1st year here. He really really struggled with the trade, and took 6 months to get going.

Exactly right. Laughton and Couts are redundant. Long-term either one gets moved out of position, which is half of the problem with this team. Or, Laughton ends up centering the 4th line, which is a waste of his talent. Or, we go with G-Couts-Laughton and have no one to really take consistent pressure off of the G line.

Or...

We trade one of Laughton or Couts. I would just as soon package Laughton in a larger deal for a top-tier asset.
- TheGreat28

I don't see why Laughton and Couturier would get moved out of position, or why they're redundant. If Laughton becomes a player that can check against top lines and can be trusted for D zone draws, then that frees up Couturier from being strangled with the deployment they have to play him in, and he can build upon his offensive game, which despite that usage, is already at a 2nd line center level.

Hall is missed as he was also a good face off man. I was just thinking If Talbot was still on this team maybe just maybe Hextall would have looked for a better deal than what he received for Hartnell. Talbot also worked well on PK and we were told that Zombie would bring a solid D game and unfortunately he just has not even shown up to the state of PA.
- 3flyerkids

Hextall had Bellemare & Raffl for the Talbot role. I think he expected Umberger to be better, and earn a top six role. You don't add a $4.6mm deal with the idea he's going to replace Talbot.

With the way Umberger is going, i have no doubts that contract is getting bought out
- AllInForFlyers

I'm all for it, as the penalty is fairly low. Just not sure the Flyers will.

Today on Hockeybuzz!


- Jsaquella

You know, often when a player is traded they either really spike in the first few weeks with the new team, or really really struggle. Then over time they normalize to what they really are as a player. To me Downie was never gonna be that true offensive spark the team needed. But if you read all the quotes at the time, that is what they thought he would be. He was even mentioned as a 1st line winger by Homer, and actually by a lot of people here too.

My only hope for Umberger is that maybe he's not acclimated yet. Maybe in another month or two he finds his game. Go back to Hartnell's 1st year here. He really really struggled with the trade, and took 6 months to get going.
- TheGreat28

It's possible that Umberger rebounds, but I'm not holding out a ton of hope. This is going on two years of largely ineffective play.

He had injuries last season, but the team and player say he's healthy now. He hasn't looked it.

I never saw Downie being acquired as an offensive spark-he's had better goal scoring success than Talbot, but I saw him slotting in where he ended up-third line role, providing physicality and helping the Couturier & Read pair with the board word and physical side of things.

You wanna buy all my season tix for the next 3 seasons?
- jmatchett383

That's not my problem haha. I like watching games in my basement thank you.

As long as we know 20 pro games into Laughton's career exactly what his career ceiling is. I thought we were trying this whole "patience" and "development" thing though.
- jmatchett383

Look, I'm the lead singer of the patience and development choir. I'm talking more about projecting where assets fit and adjusting accordingly. If Edmonton called you tonight and offered you Taylor Hall for Coburn and Laughton, would you do it?

PS: I don't think they would offer that, but that is that is the kind of trade I'd put Laughton in - one for a high-end skilled forward.

No way. Umberger on his 3-year, $4.6M deal is way better than Talbot on his 2-year, $1.75M deal.
- jmatchett383

For what Umberger is currently providing, it's one of the worst contracts in the NHL.

Nobody was as good as David Laliberte
- Jsaquella

Magnus Roupe and Kris Newbury say what??

They do have to perform better. No question. I think they need to be put in a better position to do so, but it's not assigning blame, it's more chicken and egg and what comes first.

If they played better, there'd be no reason to adjust lines. However, given the poor play after the break, I'd like to see more optimal lines. That's not just calling for the coach considering splitting up Giroux and Voracek, it's calling for the coach to consider splitting Lecavalier and Umberger and perhaps even Couturier and Read.

Those are the pairs that haven't been effective enough.
- Jsaquella

There is no combination of lines that Berube can put together that would be optimal. He has one LW right now! And that's B Schenn. He has tried Read and Simmonds at LW. If Umberger is moved to the 4th line, who is the LW on that line? You want him to split up pairs that are either real effective right now, or have been for a number of seasons, to hopefully make a better mix. Without considering that it could make the situation worse. With the mix this coach has, no matter what he does, there is going to be issues.
It's like dumping a puzzle on the table with on 3/4 of the peices, and saying put this together. Then when it can't be done, well you're just not playing in right Objectivity is the word that comes to mind. I think that Voracek and Giroux should be split up, but I'm not going to criticize the coach for not doing so, because it makes sense to keep them together.

Magnus Roupe and Kris Newbury say what??
- BiggE

They said they are waiting for Dale Kushner and Martin Hostak to play 18 holes

That's not problem haha. I like watching games in my basement thank you.
- Just5

So the people who pay money to go to the games should be totally cool with the team they pay good money for "sucking" for the next 3-4 years? What if everyone all of a sudden decided they didn't want to go for the net 3-4 years? How do you think the team would feel about that?

But hey, it's not hurting you, so why should you care? It's only affecting the people who shell-out hard-earned cash to support the team.

Didn't like Talbot, happy we dumped another overinflated contract.

Listen guys we suck, but we have to keep clearing out contracts.

Talbot and Hartnell deals all go into that bucket. Are we really a Contender anyway hanging onto these guys?

Let Hexy execute his plan. Patience, patience, patience we're going to suck for a little while
- Just5

Agreed!

Look, I'm the lead singer of the patience and development choir. I'm talking more about projecting where assets fit and adjusting accordingly. If Edmonton called you tonight and offered you Taylor Hall for Coburn and Laughton, would you do it?

PS: I don't think they would offer that, but that is that is the kind of trade I'd put Laughton in - one for a high-end skilled forward.
- TheGreat28

Based on what I have seen from Laughton... He looks pretty average. Skills, Speed, Hockey Sense. Its not hard to see talent. No matter the age of the player.

You wanna buy all my season tix for the next 3 seasons?
- jmatchett383

Herein lies part of the problem.

Pressures from the STH's to remain a competitive playoff team at any cost.

Look, I'm the lead singer of the patience and development choir. I'm talking more about projecting where assets fit and adjusting accordingly. If Edmonton called you tonight and offered you Taylor Hall for Coburn and Laughton, would you do it?

PS: I don't think they would offer that, but that is that is the kind of trade I'd put Laughton in - one for a high-end skilled forward.
- TheGreat28

I don't think you're gonna get a high-skilled forward, especially not when other GMs see the jam we're in right now.

For what Umberger is currently providing, it's one of the worst contracts in the NHL.
- PLindbergh31

But he skates really well, can produce close to Hartnell, won't take penalties, and is defensively responsible. How can you not love that?

I'm all for it, as the penalty is fairly low. Just not sure the Flyers will.
- jmatchett383

To me, it's the kind of decision a manager has to make. We all know that Hextall likely doesn't want to pull that trigger. Because it is a tough thing.

We all knew Umberger wasn't a $4.6 million player anymore. I was fine with that.

But to me, Umberger has 66 games to prove he is a $925,000 player, which is roughly the cost of a good, veteran fourth-liner. If he can't do that, cut the cord, save a couple million for the next two years, re-sign Del Zotto and move on

With the way Umberger is going, i have no doubts that contract is getting bought out
- AllInForFlyers

With the way he is going, I am wondering if he is sleeping with one eye open wondering the Hitman will be knocking on his door

It's possible that Umberger rebounds, it's also possible that I spout wings out of my ass and turn into a pterodactyl, but I'm not holding out a ton of hope. This is going on two years of largely ineffective play.

He had injuries last season, but the team and player say he's healthy now. He hasn't looked it.

I never saw Downie being acquired as an offensive spark-he's had better goal scoring success than Talbot, but I saw him slotting in where he ended up-third line role, providing physicality and helping the Couturier & Read pair with the board word and physical side of things.
- Jsaquella

FTFY

Herein lies part of the problem.

Pressures from the STH's to remain a competitive playoff team at any cost.
- Just5

Yes, it's terrible that the people who pay for seats have to be assuaged. They should continue to simply subsidize the team, I agree.

/eye roll