Herein lies part of the problem.

Pressures from the STH's to remain a competitive playoff team at any cost.
- Just5

So you're saying that the options are:

- no one should buy season tix
- the STHs should basically throw their money away for 3-4 years

That's the options?

With the way Umberger is going, i have no doubts that contract is getting bought out
- AllInForFlyers

I think it depends on where the cap is for next year.

Once that becomes clear, you can place your bets.

Herein lies part of the problem.

Pressures from the STH's to remain a competitive playoff team at any cost.
- Just5

They can be a playoff team. We don't have to miss the playoffs to rebuild.
Just get in and anything can happen. The Rags made it to the finals..and we were one game away from beating them

The defense is a bigger problem than Umberger and Vinny. Last 9 games at ES:

Coburn 42-49 = 0.462
Colaiacovo 58-57 = 0.504
Del Zotto 173-184 = 0.485
Gostisbehere 16-28 = 0.364
Grossmann 104-153 = 0.405
Manning 10-21 = 0.323
Schenn, L 93-106 = 0.467
Schultz 115-145 = 0.442
Streit 156-156 = 0.5
- Feanor

I hate those stats. doesn't take into consideration forwards not doing their jobs, guys making horrible turnovers you have nothing to do with and goalies letting in soft goals.

But he skates really well, can produce close to Hartnell, won't take penalties, and is defensively responsible. How can you not love that?
- jmatchett383

I was buying into that when the trade was made. Was trying to look at it in a glass half full type of way. I should have known better. When I watched him play last year, he looked shot.

Schenn skating with Giroux & Voracek, MacDonald skating in non-contact jersey, no Matt Read at practice, all per Dave Isaac

I don't think you're gonna get a high-skilled forward, especially not when other GMs see the jam we're in right now.
- jmatchett383

If Schenn continues his play on LW and Raffl as well. There is no jam at that position any longer.

I don't see why Laughton and Couturier would get moved out of position, or why they're redundant. If Laughton becomes a player that can check against top lines and can be trusted for D zone draws, then that frees up Couturier from being strangled with the deployment they have to play him in, and he can build upon his offensive game, which despite that usage, is already at a 2nd line center level.
- MJL

We just disagree on the amount of offense that Couturier will eventually bring, and neither of us will change the other's mind. It will need to play out over time.

There was a play a few weeks ago that really illustrated why I think that. Couts was on a 2-1 break, I forget with who. He was pretty unsure of what he wanted to do. He had a chance to pass early, and hesitated. Then instead of taking the shot, he waited and made the pass...right into the defender.

Look, he's a really good player, frankly, great in the role that I would have him in. A 3rd-line shutdown center who can chip in 20 goals and 50-55 points. I just want more offense from a 2nd line center.

Based on what I have seen from Laughton... He looks pretty average. Skills, Speed, Hockey Sense. Its not hard to see talent. No matter the age of the player.
- GOA88

He was drafted in the first round. And then after his last Junior season when they polled scouts on where they would rerank the players selected in that draft, Laughton moved in higher up in the rankings. What was that based on?

I think it depends on where the cap is for next year.

Once that becomes clear, you can place your bets.
- johndewar

They are going to buy him out, no GM in his right mind will take him unless the Flyers are willing to give up something valuable in the deal.

The choice is:

1. Buy him out after this season, the cap hit would be:
15-16 1.6 million
16-17 1.6 million
17-18 1.5 million
18-19 1.5 million

or suffer with him on the 4th line/spare forward for one more season and buy him out after 15-16, the cap hit would be:
15-16 4.6 million
16-17 1.6 million
17-18 1.5 million

He was drafted in the first round. And then after his last Junior season when they polled scouts on where they would rerank the players selected in that draft, Laughton moved in higher up in the rankings. What was that based on?
- MJL

His play in juniors which rarely translates to the NHL. You will never convince me that Laughton can perform in the NHL at the level he did in juniors. Dont waste your time.

Hextall had Bellemare & Raffl for the Talbot role. I think he expected Umberger to be better, and earn a top six role. You don't add a $4.6mm deal with the idea he's going to replace Talbot.
- Jsaquella

Just a bad trade they will have to live with. Don't see how Umberger could have been top 6 on this team. Hartnell yes..Umberger...Not
We don't know what was out there but IMO I think he could have got a better deal for Hartnell

Schenn skating with Giroux & Voracek, MacDonald skating in non-contact jersey, no Matt Read at practice, all per Dave Isaac
- Jsaquella

Traded?

We just disagree on the amount of offense that Couturier will eventually bring, and neither of us will change the other's mind. It will need to play out over time.

There was a play a few weeks ago that really illustrated why I think that. Couts was on a 2-1 break, I forget with who. He was pretty unsure of what he wanted to do. He had a chance to pass early, and hesitated. Then instead of taking the shot, he waited and made the pass...right into the defender.

Look, he's a really good player, frankly, great in the role that I would have him in. A 3rd-line shutdown center who can chip in 20 goals and 50-55 points. I just want more offense from a 2nd line center.
- TheGreat28

No, I haven't been stating what offense I think Couturier will eventually bring. I'm stating what offense despite how he is used, he is already bringing. And I would suggest taking a look at past NHL seasons, and see what 2nd and 3rd line NHL centers are scoring. And show me what 3rd line center is scoring at that level. 20 goals and 50-55 points is 2nd line center scoring numbers in the NHL.

Traded?
- BiggE

I HOPE SO

Traded?
- BiggE

Nah. Probably a broken bone in his foot from blocking a shot.

His play in juniors which rarely translates to the NHL. You will never convince me that Laughton can perform in the NHL at the level he did in juniors. Dont waste your time.
- GOA88

Who was trying to convince you of that? Laughton is projected as a 3rd line center type with some offensive ability.

Nah. Probably a broken bone in his foot from blocking a shot.
- PLindbergh31

That would be classic Flyers for sure

So the people who pay money to go to the games should be totally cool with the team they pay good money for "sucking" for the next 3-4 years? What if everyone all of a sudden decided they didn't want to go for the net 3-4 years? How do you think the team would feel about that?

But hey, it's not hurting you, so why should you care? It's only affecting the people who shell-out hard-earned cash to support the team.
- jmatchett383

As long as the team has a long term goal and is sticking to it which by all accounts they appear to be, yes keep shelling out your hard earned money.

I don't think you're gonna get a high-skilled forward, especially not when other GMs see the jam we're in right now.
- jmatchett383

Not straight-up, and not now. But Coburn is a very valuable chip if the Flyers seem to be out of it heading into the TDL. Now let's say Laughton shows continued growth in the AHL, I think they could put together a package that could bring in a high-end forward prospect.

Remember, by then Defense will be a priority for teams trying to make the playoffs. And getting back a good prospect in return makes it more palatable to trade a top prospect.

Who was trying to convince you of that? Laughton is projected as a 3rd line center type with some offensive ability.
- MJL

Which is an average player. Seems you were trying to convince me otherwise...

Traded?
- BiggE

No Rinaldo either.

Lines are: 10-28-93
17-14-41
40-78-18
42-76

His play in juniors which rarely translates to the NHL. You will never convince me that Laughton can perform in the NHL at the level he did in juniors. Dont waste your time.
- GOA88

I don't think any one is trying to make that comparison, at least offensively. However, from a defensive standpoint I feel there is that potential. MJL is right, if Laughton proves he can take some of those defensive zone starts, then it will free up Couts to have a more offensive role. Just because it is him saying it doesn't mean its wrong.

No Rinaldo either.

Lines are: 10-28-93
17-14-41
40-78-18
42-76
- Jsaquella

Please tell me they traded Rinaldo
please
pretty please
pretty please with a cherry on top

That would be classic Flyers for sure

- BiggE

Yep..gotta be injury