Not going to work, you would like him too
- ob18

Sure, at 12-17 or so, he'd be a great choice. Not sure he's a great choice at 5-7

And before his injury he was getting less than 40% OZ starts and the hardest minutes on the team which was ridiculous usage for a guy with his defensive frailties.
- Feanor

No doubt. Both sets of usage patterns leave a lot to be desired.

When you consider that he was brought in to be a leader at both ends of the ice, though, a good stretch of CF w/ 60% OZS isn't making me feel much better about the player, or the signing.

For the most part, he hasn't been much of a positive difference maker at either end, he's been taken off the PP, and for a team that's this bad on the PK they don't seem to feel he can help them there either. His blocks are down, his P/60 is going nowhere, and he's not exactly triggering an awesome breakout a la Carle w/ much regularity.

So he does well in sheltered, hand fed minutes and struggles when asked to carry a heavy load?

Sounds like exactly what most rational people who didn't like his contract in the first place took issue with. Not that he's terrible, just that he's a limited guy who needs to be sheltered.
- Jsaquella

There really is no such thing as shetered hand fed minutes for an NHL defenseman. It's all dificult minutes.

This is what it boils down to for me and it really doesn't matter if people agree.

The most major move made this Hextall has been here in the Umberger deal. It was a bad deal for what we had to give up. One serious thing to note isn't we lack toughness, especially since moving Hartnell. We also had a chance to sign Steve Ott, most of you didn't want him but I did. We also lost scoring and a guy who had chemistry on the top line.

With the said, when you look at the draft Hextall did well but it's not like we haven't drafted well prior. One season before having Travis Sanheim and Nicolas Aube-Kubel, we already had Samuel Morin, Scott Laughton, Shayne Gostisbehere and Robert Hagg. So excuse me if I don't go all nutty and feel we couldn't have drafted with without Hextall.

As for our signing, they were all safe signing. My honest opinion of Nick Schultz, I don't he's been OK. However, he was signed here as a 7th defenseman because he was playing as a 7th defenseman last season. He isn't the miracle signing. As for Bellemare, Del Zotto and Colaiacovo to go along with Schultz, they're just a bunch of guys filling space. I like them but I don't think they're incredible finds.

I'm not asking for Hextall to be fired, I never was. However, I do think it's silly to assume that if he made a deal now rather then the deadline that he's pushing to make a rash decision. How does one move to improve us hurt us anymore then we already are? It's not just Vinny and Umberger who are going to be moved out. It might have to be Grossmann, Coburn, I would try to find takers for MacDonald, maybe Streit. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. Berube might be up for being fired. What kind of value does Raffl or Read have? He very well might have to wait but I think one move (if there was one) could have made our season more enjoyable.

Now if I'm a jack ass, then I'm a jack ass but it doesn't make scene to me cry daily while putting all our hopes into the future. Sheesh, sounds like a black slaves movie, especially when this is far from a slaves situation!
- SuperSchennBros

The problem is, it's all speculation. None of us have any idea what Hextall has been trying to do or not. And in my opinion there's no reasonable way to judge Hexy yet based on less than 1 year as GM with serious cap and contract restraints.

Talking about hypothetical moves is one thing; talking about Hextall not following through on said hypothetical moves is something else entirely.

Black slaves movie?

Sure, at 12-17 or so, he'd be a great choice. Not sure he's a great choice at 5-7
- Jsaquella

Still early but 10 - 15 seems a good landing spot

No doubt. Both sets of usage patterns leave a lot to be desired.

When you consider that he was brought in to be a leader at both ends of the ice, though, a good stretch of CF w/ 60% OZS isn't making me feel much better about the player, or the signing.

For the most part, he hasn't been much of a positive difference maker at either end, he's been taken off the PP, and for a team that's this bad on the PK they don't seem to feel he can help them there either. His blocks are down, his P/60 is going nowhere, and he's not exactly triggering an awesome breakout a la Carle w/ much regularity.
- Tomahawk

He wasn't brought in to be a leader at both ends of the ice, he was brought in to be a solid 2nd pair puck moving defenseman, to upgrade the skill level and mobility of the defense, and he has done so.

So he does well in sheltered, hand fed minutes and struggles when asked to carry a heavy load?

Sounds like exactly what most rational people who didn't like his contract in the first place took issue with. Not that he's terrible, just that he's a limited guy who needs to be sheltered.
- Jsaquella

I didn't like his contract because I thought 4/18 was the max the Flyers should go up to for a guy who wasn't a top pairing candidate. But he can handle second pairing minutes. He doesn't need to be sheltered the way LSchenn and Colaiacovo have been sheltered this season.

He wasn't brought in to be a leader at both ends of the ice, he was brought in to be a solid 2nd pair puck moving defenseman, to upgrade the skill level and mobility of the defense, and he has done so.
- MJL

That's just swell!

MacDonald pictured far right.

Still early but 10 - 15 seems a good landing spot
- ob18

I just hope the Flyers don't take him at 6 ahead of the guys likely to be on the board. If they add a pick, or drop back after a hot streak, great.

You might be right right but I just don't think the moves made are fantastic! If we such for a number of years, it might be tough getting players to want to come here for along time and we need to seem attractive around the league too. We have to hope we drafted, trade and sign the right players along the way.
- SuperSchennBros

i mean what other moves could he have made? im sure if he could have traded hartnell for picks he would have done it. the next two years are going to be spent clearing homers messes.

Sure, at 12-17 or so, he'd be a great choice. Not sure he's a great choice at 5-7
- Jsaquella

Seems like he'd be a bit maddening out of the gate... like Coots... waiting and hoping his production matches the promise. He's undoubtedly a fantastic-looking player, tho:

I didn't like his contract because I thought 4/18 was the max the Flyers should go up to for a guy who wasn't a top pairing candidate. But he can handle second pairing minutes. He doesn't need to be sheltered the way LSchenn and Colaiacovo have been sheltered this season.
- Feanor

No, he doesn't need to be sheltered to that extent. Doesn't mean he's a guy that should have an extensive contract term and money he's getting. He can't be a top pair guy, but he's not a 7th defenseman.

IMO, he's fine if you have a strong number 3 guy to pair with him on a second pair, or more ideally to anchor the third pair. That's not just a good thing to have, it's a need. But to take that guy, even if it's a UFA situation, and make him your 2nd highest paid defenseman says you're expecting more.

He wasn't brought in to be a leader at both ends of the ice, he was brought in to be a solid 2nd pair puck moving defenseman, to upgrade the skill level and mobility of the defense, and he has done so.
- MJL

I understand everything with MacDonald. But fair or not when your making the money he is you expect more from him. Look at Staals deal. They expect certain things from him. MacDonalds seems to be muscled off the puck alot and even, from my persecptive, timid in taking the body most nights. I know you will tell me he isn't a physical defensman and his stick positioning is great but at what he is getting paid i expect more.

The move Hextall needs to make over the break is reassigning Berube out of the way and getting Holmgren in as interim coach. It would immediately restore some spirit to an obviously dispirited group, and would mean the guy making coaching decisions has no pressure on him to achieve short term gains at long term expense.

That's just swell!
- PLindbergh31

The only thing that got upgraded with this team is their lottery chances.

Seems like he'd be a bit maddening out of the gate... like Coots... waiting and hoping his production matches the promise. He's undoubtedly a fantastic-looking player, tho:


- Tomahawk

I understand his team is missing some key offensive pieces from last season, and he is a very capable guy with a lot of skill. He can fill a lot of roles. You'd just like to see more production from a guy if you're taking him that high in a deep draft.

Sure, at 12-17 or so, he'd be a great choice. Not sure he's a great choice at 5-7
- Jsaquella

Thank you! I really don't get all the love for Crouse, ESPECIALLY for the Flyers. Yes, he's big and has some skill. Yes, he's defensively very responsible, high hockey IQ and does the little things.

But....

.75 / ppg from a guy who's bigger and stronger than half the league is pretty underwhelming. I don't know...maybe it's just the lack of skill on Kingston.

Now, think about the Flyers. So you put him with G and Jake in 2 years. Barring trades, you are pretty much exactly where you are today with the rest of the lineup. You have Simmonds and Schenn on the same line, even though they really don't play well on same line. If Couturier doesn't develop the offensive skill that most here think he will, then you are again a one-line team with an inconsistent 2nd and 3rd line that will go cold for long stretches.

I just hope the Flyers don't take him at 6 ahead of the guys likely to be on the board. If they add a pick, or drop back after a hot streak, great.
- Jsaquella

I agree

I understand his team is missing some key offensive pieces from last season, and he is a very capable guy with a lot of skill. He can fill a lot of roles. You'd just like to see more production from a guy if you're taking him that high in a deep draft.
- Jsaquella

Does he hit?
Can he fight?

I understand his team is missing some key offensive pieces from last season, and he is a very capable guy with a lot of skill. He can fill a lot of roles. You'd just like to see more production from a guy if you're taking him that high in a deep draft.
- Jsaquella

As long as they aren't passing on Marner/Werenski/Kylington to take him, I'd be fine w/ the pick in the top-10. I like that he's a pretty polished two-way player, seems to play well w/ the puck, and has a head for the game. Even if he never breaks 30-goals, that stuff will still have value.

The move Hextall needs to make over the break is reassigning Berube out of the way and getting Holmgren in as interim coach. It would immediately restore some spirit to an obviously dispirited group, and would mean the guy making coaching decisions has no pressure on him to achieve short term gains at long term expense.
- Feanor

Making Homer coach his signings...like rubbing a dog's nose in its own mess, right?

Reporters saying Greiss is first off ice today, likely Pens starter tonight

Thank you! I really don't get all the love for Crouse, ESPECIALLY for the Flyers. Yes, he's big and has some skill. Yes, he's defensively very responsible, high hockey IQ and does the little things.

But....

.75 / ppg from a guy who's bigger and stronger than half the league is pretty underwhelming. I don't know...maybe it's just the lack of skill on Kingston.

Now, think about the Flyers. So you put him with G and Jake in 2 years. Barring trades, you are pretty much exactly where you are today with the rest of the lineup. You have Simmonds and Schenn on the same line, even though they really don't play well on same line. If Couturier doesn't develop the offensive skill that most here think he will, then you are again a one-line team with an inconsistent 2nd and 3rd line that will go cold for long stretches.
- TheGreat28

Keep the flip side in mind there have also been high scoring players taken high and done nothing, its a roll of the dice

Reporters saying Greiss is first off ice today, likely Pens starter tonight
- Jsaquella

Shutout.

As long as they aren't passing on Marner/Werenski/Kylington to take him, I'd be fine w/ the pick in the top-10. I like that he's a pretty polished two-way player, seems to play well w/ the puck, and has a head for the game. Even if he never breaks 30-goals, that stuff will still have value.
- Tomahawk

He's a fine player, but yeah. If Marner, Werenski, Kylington, Rantanen, Strome are on the board, I'd go with one of them before him.