Yeah. I mean would you consider Del Zotto and upgrade on MacDonald? Right now I thnik for what Del Zotto is paid he is more valuable then what MacDonald is.


Also just a hypothetical but since Toronto seems like it wants to really move players. Would you do something like Vinny and MacDonald to Toronoto for Phaneuf? I actually like Phaneuf and think if you had a top pair of Phanuef and Coburn that it might make Coburn better. Yes I know I have no clue if Toronto would do that but was just thinking on how to upgrade the d
- J35Bacher

Del Zotto is better than Amac even if both paid a 5 mill.

I disagree. Most of these guys want the security of a long term deal. With the amount of sticks, pucks, skates and elbows flying around, every contract they sign could be their last.
- Feanor

Previously, I'd have said the Flyers will go all in to get Green. I'm not so sure Hexy will do that now though. He doesn't seem to want to go after the big fish.. or maybe he just coulnd't last year..

My issue with him was that he wasn't physically strong enough to knock players off of pucks. He was, at times, a turnstile out there. He had a lot of strengths, but good players/teams could expose his weaknesses.
- jmatchett383

I don't agree with that, Carle has a strong stick, and was sound positionally. he was not a physical player, and at times could be outmuscled down low, but he was not a turnstyle.

Many have stated that Carle was not elite at Even strength, but one season with the Flyers, Carle led ALL NHL defenseman in Even Strength scoring, and was among the top defenseman in ES scoring over a number of seasons. He also one season led the ENTIRE NHL, not just defenseman in Plus games. Combined with his solid all around game, and shot blocking, he was absolutely for a time an elite defenseman at ES. He was however not in that class on the PP and the PK. Carle was a very good player here when he was a Flyer.

I disagree. Most of these guys want the security of a long term deal. With the amount of sticks, pucks, skates and elbows flying around, every contract they sign could be their last.
- Feanor

We've also seen long-term deals backfire on players too (Richards, Luongo, Redden, etc)... and with more and more of their contracts held in escrow (and probably more never returned), guys might not be as willing to trade $ for term.

He was "good" when paired with Pronger....Without Prongs....Average.

Go ask the Lightning fans how they feel about Carle....They dont like him either.
- GOA88

Not the case. In many instances, Carle was better statistically without Pronger. It's a myth that Pronger made Carle. A lot of fans didn't like him when he was here either. What a few fans think is irrelevant.

Also just a hypothetical but since Toronto seems like it wants to really move players. Would you do something like Vinny and MacDonald to Toronoto for Phaneuf? I actually like Phaneuf and think if you had a top pair of Phanuef and Coburn that it might make Coburn better. Yes I know I have no clue if Toronto would do that but was just thinking on how to upgrade the d
- J35Bacher

If Toronto was willing to do that, I'd drive the car. I always wanted to go to the top of the CN Tower.

Niskanen got 7 years at $5.75m. I can't see Green settling for anything less.
- Feanor

I think the terms of deals will be in the 5 year range this upcoming year. Longer term deals may be harder to come by. I would take Green for 5 years at 6.5... If they move Streit for a first.

Not the case. In many instances, Carle was better statistically without Pronger. It's a myth that Pronger made Carle. A lot of fans didn't like him when he was here either. What a few fans think is irrelevant.
- MJL

Is what a lot of fans think irrelevant as well?

He was a very good, fairly effective Robin, though.
- jmatchett383

After Pronger died, Carle was steady despite a revolving door of partners. I think he falls more in Nightwing territory.

Is what a lot of fans think irrelevant as well?
- jmatchett383

A lot of fans think Crosby Sucks

Ahh, the curse of averageness!

We have 9 bonafide NHL defensemen. Too bad they are all Robins....

We need a Batman!
- MBFlyerfan

You could argue that Streit was a Batman once. Timonen too. They're Adam West Batmans though and we need a Christian Bale.

Del Zotto is better than Amac even if both paid a 5 mill.
- GOA88

Del Zotto is more dynamic offensively, in moving up on the play. That's one area where MacDOnald needs to improve and play more like his did in the Arizona game. I give the edge to MacDonald defensively, and in outlet passing.

You could argue that Streit was a Batman once. Timonen too. They're Adam West Batmans though and we need a Christian Bale.
- NickTheKid87

As long as we don't have to deal with the stupid voice, or all the filler scenes.

Is what a lot of fans think irrelevant as well?
- jmatchett383

Depends on the fans.

We've also seen long-term deals backfire on players too (Richards, Luongo, Redden, etc)... and with more and more of their contracts held in escrow (and probably more never returned), guys might not be as willing to trade $ for term.
- Tomahawk

I'm sure Wade Redden had hurt pride, but I also don't think he was giving any of the money back, either.

As long as we don't have to deal with the stupid voice, or all the filler scenes.
- BulliesPhan87

The voice got progressively worse. It was tolerable in Batman Begins but By The Dark Knight Rises, it was just absurd.

After Pronger died, Carle was steady despite a revolving door of partners. I think he falls more in Nightwing territory.
- BulliesPhan87

I'm alternately ashamed and delighted that I got this reference.

Not the case. In many instances, Carle was better statistically without Pronger. It's a myth that Pronger made Carle. A lot of fans didn't like him when he was here either. What a few fans think is irrelevant.
- MJL

So then what you think is also irrelevant. This debate is now not worth having.

Is what a lot of fans think irrelevant as well?
- jmatchett383

So then what you think is also irrelevant. This debate is now not worth having.
- GOA88

I'm not going to ever use "what the fans think" in any debate or discussion on any player. It's simply a weak argument.

So then what you think is also irrelevant. This debate is now not worth having.
- GOA88

No chance. Teams around the NHL horde defensemen. There would be multiple claims on him.
- bmeltzer

Bill do you think the same thing is true of AMac? If he were waived would teams claim him despite his salary?

If Toronto was willing to do that, I'd drive the car. I always wanted to go to the top of the CN Tower.
- jmatchett383

I have been to top of CN Tower and trust me if Leaf fans had a chance to toss Dion off it... They would! The guy is overrated.

Is what a lot of fans think irrelevant as well?
- jmatchett383

Well, yes actually, it is.

We don't sign the deals or write the checks. We just get happy/mad about things that aren't under our control. Fans are nuts.

I'm not going to ever use "what the fans think" in any debate or discussion on any player. It's simply a weak argument.
- MJL

Carle and Coburn, as much as they've been maligned over the years, have a poop ton of evidence supporting that they were/are valuable and make their teams better.