Are we debating the issue of having too many good defenseman with respect to the 2014/2015 Philadelphia Flyers?
- jmatchett383

More like we are debating having too many average defensemen.

The opinion you offer here reminds of the one game a couple of years ago where you criticized Carle for having an awful game, when he was the best defenseman on the ice for both teams.
- MJL

He did that a lot. Get a couple of dandy assists, for both teams.

Are we debating the issue of having too many good defenseman with respect to the 2014/2015 Philadelphia Flyers?
- jmatchett383

They have too many #3-#5 defenseman. Not enough #1-#2 defenseman.

He did that a lot. Get a couple of dandy assists, for both teams.
- jak521

Much like Coburn today, Carle was out for the majority of tough minutes against top competition. He'd have a generally solid game with 1-2 gaffes and, since he was out against top competition, those gaffes stood out because they generally led to scoring chances against. And because of this, he's apparently a terrible player.

Are we debating the issue of having too many good defenseman with respect to the 2014/2015 Philadelphia Flyers?
- jmatchett383

Not really. We are, however, debating which ones are the worst.

Its kind of a weird conundrum isn't it? The only one we can be absolutely sure of sitting is Carlo.

There is no way in hell you sit MDZ. That leaves Schultz and Schenn. Does Schultz really deserve to sit in place of Coburn, Grossmann, or Timonen?

Not really. We are, however, debating which ones are the worst.

Its kind of a weird conundrum isn't it? The only one we can be absolutely sure of sitting is Carlo.

There is no way in hell you sit MDZ. That leaves Schultz and Schenn. Does Schultz really deserve to sit in place of Coburn, Grossmann, or Timonen?





- MBFlyerfan

Many Grossmann is the one who sits???

Much like Coburn today, Carle was out for the majority of tough minutes against top competition. He'd have a generally solid game with 1-2 gaffes and, since he was out against top competition, those gaffes stood out because they generally led to scoring chances against. And because of this, he's apparently a terrible player.
- jmatchett383

Carle was a very good puck moving defenseman who was very underrated, and very unappreciated by many when he was here. He was an elite defenseman at Even strength when he was here.

Not really. We are, however, debating which ones are the worst.

Its kind of a weird conundrum isn't it? The only one we can be absolutely sure of sitting is Carlo.

There is no way in hell you sit MDZ. That leaves Schultz and Schenn. Does Schultz really deserve to sit in place of Coburn, Grossmann, or Timonen?





- MBFlyerfan

Just sit the guys you have no shot at trading. Not necessarily the worst

Carlo, schenn, macdonald can all have a seat.

They have too many #3-#5 defenseman. Not enough #1-#2 defenseman.
- MJL

Ahh, the curse of averageness!

We have 9 bonafide NHL defensemen. Too bad they are all Robins....

We need a Batman!

Much like Coburn today, Carle was out for the majority of tough minutes against top competition. He'd have a generally solid game with 1-2 gaffes and, since he was out against top competition, those gaffes stood out because they generally led to scoring chances against. And because of this, he's apparently a terrible player.
- jmatchett383

Never said he was a terrible player. Just frustrating. He was another guy, like the aforementioned Coburn, that really varied depending on who he played with. I always female doged about his turnovers and what not. He would consistently fire shots into shin pads.

He was a guy who wasnt quite a #2, but also not a #3.. Like Coburn, with the right partner he is a very good #2, and a great #4. He just needs the right partner. It was my argument then and still is now.

Well, lets take em one by one:

Kimmo: If he comes back, and he's willing to be dealt, you have to move him. His contract makes him pretty easy to move to a contender and the guy deserves a chance to win a cup. If he comes back and looks effective, you might be able to get a late first for him, worst case, you'd certainly get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd in 2016.

Coburn: I still think he can be very effective if paired with the right partner, however if you can get a 1st for him, he needs to go.

Streit: He's still very valuable here and is going to be counted on to perform the same role next year. I would need at least a 1st in 2015 plus a 2nd or a prospect to move him.

AMac: LOL, good luck moving him unless you are willing to eat money. He'll be back next year.

Schultz: I think he's a guy that can be re-signed at a reasonable rate for the next 2 seasons. However, if you can get a 2nd for him, it has to be considered.

MDZ: Considering he's RFA, the Flyers are in the drivers seat here. I'd re-sign him before I'd trade him

Schenn: Yeah he's struggled quite a bit, but lets face it, you aren't going to get a whole lot for him right now. I'd keep him for now and perhaps move him next year when he's in the last year of his deal.

Grossmann: If I can get a 2nd, he's gone. If not, keep him and try to move him at next year's deadline.
- BiggE

Kimmo - I don't think he is going to want to go anywhere. I think his main thing is to play and go out on his terms. Just my feelings

Schenn - You might not think he has value but he is the only consistant physical defensman other then Grossmann. Not everyone can be an offensive dman. Also you don't know what effect it might have on Brayden. We can all say it is a business and he should be fine but you never know.

Grossmann - I would look to move him as him because he is older then schenn. I think you could get a 2nd and 3rd from playoff team possibly.

Coburn - I move if I can get 1st and close to ready prospect.

MacDonald - I move him if I get a nice package. i think you can replace his skills for cheaper. I know what he can do I just don't like the contract for him.

Schultz/Del Zotto- I move if I get a nice offer but I am ok resigning if the value is there.

Carle was a very good puck moving defenseman who was very underrated, and very unappreciated by many when he was here. He was an elite defenseman at Even strength when he was here.
- MJL

I would never consider Carle "elite." That puts him in the same breath as guys like Weber, Suter, and Doughty as far as even strength play is considered.

Kimmo - I don't think he is going to want to go anywhere. I think his main thing is to play and go out on his terms. Just my feelings

Schenn - You might not think he has value but he is the only consistant physical defensman other then Grossmann. Not everyone can be an offensive dman. Also you don't know what effect it might have on Brayden. We can all say it is a business and he should be fine but you never know.

Grossmann - I would look to move him as him because he is older then schenn. I think you could get a 2nd and 3rd from playoff team possibly.

Coburn - I move if I can get 1st and close to ready prospect.

MacDonald - I move him if I get a nice package. i think you can replace his skills for cheaper. I know what he can do I just don't like the contract for him.

Schultz/Del Zotto- I move if I get a nice offer but I am ok resigning if the value is there.
- J35Bacher

So not only do you think MacDonald is movable, but you would only move him if you got a nice package in return? I really might be on my own with this one.

Never said he was a terrible player. Just frustrating. He was another guy, like the aforementioned Coburn, that really varied depending on who he played with. I always female doged about his turnovers and what not. He would consistently fire shots into shin pads.

He was a guy who wasnt quite a #2, but also not a #3.. Like Coburn, with the right partner he is a very good #2, and a great #4. He just needs the right partner. It was my argument then and still is now.
- jak521

Agreed. Neither one was an anchor, but could be very good compliments.

MacDonald - I move him if I get a nice package. i think you can replace his skills for cheaper. I know what he can do I just don't like the contract for him.
- J35Bacher

If you can replace his skills for cheaper, then why would you need a "nice package" for him?

Many Grossmann is the one who sits???
- jmatchett383

More likely someone else will be hurt by the time Coburn is healthy.

Not really. We are, however, debating which ones are the worst.

Its kind of a weird conundrum isn't it? The only one we can be absolutely sure of sitting is Carlo.

There is no way in hell you sit MDZ. That leaves Schultz and Schenn. Does Schultz really deserve to sit in place of Coburn, Grossmann, or Timonen?





- MBFlyerfan

Based on how they are playing, you have to sit CC, AMac and Grossmann

CC is obvious.
AMac has been ok, but you just can't go with a D featuring Streit, Timonen, MDZ, Schultz and AMac. It's just too damn small and soft and both Schultz and MDZ are playing better than AMac right now.

And finally, they are simply looking better with Grossmann out of the lineup. Schenn is a bit faster and more skilled, plus the right hand shot doesn't hurt either.

Kimmo - I don't think he is going to want to go anywhere. I think his main thing is to play and go out on his terms. Just my feelings.
- J35Bacher

Mine, too.

I also think the risk to a contender trading for him is extremely high.

I would never consider Carle "elite." That puts him in the same breath as guys like Weber, Suter, and Doughty as far as even strength play is considered.
- jmatchett383

I probably wouldn't use the term elite either, but he was waaaay under appreciated as a Flyer. The whole "only good because of Pronger" thing was stupid.

So not only do you think MacDonald is movable, but you would only move him if you got a nice package in return? I really might be on my own with this one.
- jak521

Hell, due to his contract, if someone offered a 4th for AMac, I'd make the deal in a second!

So not only do you think MacDonald is movable, but you would only move him if you got a nice package in return? I really might be on my own with this one.
- jak521

Here are your immovable contracts. (by that I mean the flyers aren't eating money in a trade, nor are they getting back an equally immovable contract)

L schenn
Lecavalier
Umberger
Macdonald

More likely someone else will be hurt by the time Coburn is healthy.
- Feanor

Sad, but probably true

Mine, too.

I also think the risk to a contender trading for him is extremely high.
- Scoob

I don't think he'll get you a 1st based on his health condition and age. However, if you're approached with an offer for him that's in the 2nd round or better, the Flyers should ask him what he'd like to do and respect his wishes.

Here are your immovable contracts. (by that I mean the flyers aren't eating money in a trade, nor are they getting back an equally immovable contract)

L schenn
Lecavalier
Umberger
Macdonald
- Just5

Because Schenn is 25, a right handed dman and only has one year left at a relatively reasonable 3.6 million, he is moveable. You won't get more than a 3rd but you wouldn't have to eat money or take back a bad contract.

Well, lets take em one by one:

Kimmo: If he comes back, and he's willing to be dealt, you have to move him. His contract makes him pretty easy to move to a contender and the guy deserves a chance to win a cup. If he comes back and looks effective, you might be able to get a late first for him, worst case, you'd certainly get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd in 2016.

Coburn: I still think he can be very effective if paired with the right partner, however if you can get a 1st for him, he needs to go.

Streit: He's still very valuable here and is going to be counted on to perform the same role next year. I would need at least a 1st in 2015 plus a 2nd or a prospect to move him.

AMac: LOL, good luck moving him unless you are willing to eat money. He'll be back next year.

Schultz: I think he's a guy that can be re-signed at a reasonable rate for the next 2 seasons. However, if you can get a 2nd for him, it has to be considered.

MDZ: Considering he's RFA, the Flyers are in the drivers seat here. I'd re-sign him before I'd trade him

Schenn: Yeah he's struggled quite a bit, but lets face it, you aren't going to get a whole lot for him right now. I'd keep him for now and perhaps move him next year when he's in the last year of his deal.

Grossmann: If I can get a 2nd, he's gone. If not, keep him and try to move him at next year's deadline.
- BiggE

Streit is so valuable but if a first is there I would take it, and pursue a Green as a UFA. Coburn is another guy who fetch that 1st and I think Hexy pulls the trigger. Just the possibility of having 3 first round picks this year is a win win. Christ... We have to win something. We are stuck with AMac and his 30M, I agree with that