He also traded a 6'8, 6'3, 6'2, and a feisty 6'1 player though.

No to mention McNabb.

I'm not going to get into the trade, but IMO he is banking on a lot of guys panning out like they are supposed to. I feel like our system is semi depleted now
- sbroads24

whenever you think that, remember girgens, risto and big z are already with the big club

there is a lot to like already in the minors and 2 more impact players coming this summer

Josh McCown to sign with Buffalo.
- ImThatGuy

better then no move

he looked descent with the bears

He also traded a 6'8, 6'3, 6'2, and a feisty 6'1 player though.

No to mention McNabb.

I'm not going to get into the trade, but IMO he is banking on a lot of guys panning out like they are supposed to. I feel like our system is semi depleted now
- sbroads24

I think the Murray guys are big, tough and can skate. I believe everyone on that list is missing at least one of those attributes.

Could it really be that we are a top line RW away from having the majority of the build finished? We kicked Kessel around a bit last week. You either like him, hate him or like him at a reduced cap hit (I fall into this group).

If I am Toronto I offer to hold 2.5 mill a year to lower his cap hit to 5.5/year. If they do that he would be worth a lot more (not unlike how we got more value out of deadline trades by holding salary). I'd be willing to pay more to get him at an affordable rate.

To Buffalo:
Kessel at 5.5/year

To Toronto:
2015 non-Buffalo first
2015 2nd
Grigorenko
Someone from juniors other than Bailey and Baptiste
- Slump Buster

Not enough.

If they move Kessel a 2015 1st will be included. They traded 2 top 10 picks and a 2nd for him. They will get very close to the same return. As per all the accolades he get do to his goal scoring ability. Shanahan gives Murray a dial tone with that offer IMO. At a reduced cap hit, you open the rest of the league to be able to fit him in.

I just don't think he saw him as a player they were going to miss.
- dadeadhead

Doesn't necessarily mean he's right though.

Not enough.

If they move Kessel a 2015 1st will be included. They traded 2 top 10 picks and a 2nd for him. They will get very close to the same return. As per all the accolades he get do to his goal scoring ability. Shanahan gives Murray a dial tone with that offer IMO. At a reduced cap hit, you open the rest of the league to be able to fit him in.
- dadeadhead

I did include a first - just not our first. Also, remember that they traded two firsts that ended up being in the top 10 because of how bad the leafs ended up being. Grigs was a first and our 2nd is *almost* a first.

Doesn't necessarily mean he's right though.
- sbroads24

Not saying he is or isn't.

This deal is 3 years away from declaring anyone a winner.

History has shown us that.

The Pommer and Hodgson trades don't look as good today as they once did.

I did include a first - just not our first. Also, remember that they traded two firsts that ended up being in the top 10 because of how bad the leafs ended up being. Grigs was a first and our 2nd is *almost* a first.
- Slump Buster

They will want a 2015 1st and a 2016 1st along with a prospect and roster player.

And the StL/NYI 1st isn't what they'd be after. Which I think we all know is a non starter with Murray.

Could it really be that we are a top line RW away from having the majority of the build finished? We kicked Kessel around a bit last week. You either like him, hate him or like him at a reduced cap hit (I fall into this group).

If I am Toronto I offer to hold 2.5 mill a year to lower his cap hit to 5.5/year. If they do that he would be worth a lot more (not unlike how we got more value out of deadline trades by holding salary). I'd be willing to pay more to get him at an affordable rate.

To Buffalo:
Kessel at 5.5/year

To Toronto:
2015 non-Buffalo first
2015 2nd
Grigorenko
Someone from juniors other than Bailey and Baptiste
- Slump Buster

http://youtu.be/9DmvFVM_fm4

4:15
- dadeadhead

Immediately

They will want a 2015 1st and a 2016 1st along with a prospect and roster player.

And the StL/NYI 1st isn't what they'd be after. Which I think we all know is a non starter with Murray.
- dadeadhead

I don't think it would be possible for them to get a top 15 first in this year's draft for him. If Toronto held 2.5mill salary I'd be ok with removing the 2nd in this year's draft and adding in our 2016 first.

- Cptmjl

Thanks for adding to the discussion

Not saying he is or isn't.

This deal is 3 years away from declaring anyone a winner.

History has shown us that.

The Pommer and Hodgson trades don't look as good today as they once did.
- dadeadhead

aside from the vanek and miller/ott trade, it's hard to find trades the sabres won in the last5 years

aside from the vanek and miller/ott trade, it's hard to find trades the sabres won in the last5 years
- homiedclown

Again though do we really know they won those trades?


I'll still reserve judgement.


I'd say the Gaustad and Gratton trades were clear winners.

aside from the vanek and miller/ott trade, it's hard to find trades the sabres won in the last5 years
- homiedclown

"Winning" should mean that we got enough out of the trade to make it worthwhile. For example, if Kane and Bogosian are what we hope they will be I don't care what Myers becomes or doesn't become with the Jets.

Thanks for adding to the discussion
- Slump Buster

I know reality sucks.

Again though do we really know they won those trades?


I'll still reserve judgement.


I'd say the Gaustad and Gratton trades were clear winners.
- dadeadhead

Gratton trade was 12 years ago

time flies

He also traded a 6'8, 6'3, 6'2, and a feisty 6'1 player though.

No to mention McNabb.

I'm not going to get into the trade, but IMO he is banking on a lot of guys panning out like they are supposed to. I feel like our system is semi depleted now
- sbroads24

You shouldnt. Heres why:

Myers: Bogosian replaces Myers in the top 4. He didnt look out of place last night, and can replace Myers minutes. I think they'll view Risto as the better player, so in 2 years or whenever really, Risto will go to top pairing and Bogo will drop down. He gives an element to the defense that Myers didnt have, but he also gives up an element that Myers had. If Murray signs a puck moving top pairing LHD (Sekera!) this year, we didnt lose anything.

Armia: We replaced Armia with Kane. Armia was a top 6 winger right? He was 21 years old and wasnt in the NHL yet. We replaced him with a player who is 6 years ahead in his development and the better player. There is no argument about it. We got the NHL top 6 player, not the potential NHL top 6 player.

Lemieux: He doesnt bring anything that Bailey and Baptiste dont bring (goal scoring) while those guys have much more well rounded games than Lemieux, and size. I dont get why people are hung up on him. Maybe because his dad was Claude and he was a playoff performer. I dont know. I think hes already passed by guys in our system, and I'd be willing to bet that Bailey is the better NHL'r in his career.

1st: We still have the other 1st and pick 31 to trade up from. Remember last year we had ammo to trade up but no one was willing. Very well could be the issue again this year. Teams not willing to trade back. If he can, he has the ammo to grab someone. Not a big loss.

I know reality sucks.
- Cptmjl

C'mon smart guy, enlighten us. I regularly listen to the Toronto stations and even they don't think they will get that much for him. The number of suitors, his cap number and his limited no-trade clause are prohibitive.

I just don't think he saw him as a player they were going to miss.
- dadeadhead

I get it, and obviously have to trust in "my" GM...I just had such hopes for Armia.

But to say he didn't have drive or didn't show anything is a bit too far, IMO, since it's not like he had opportunity.

Saw that. Playoffs start. 1st 5 gamer all season ?
- cabin

Ranked 113, I guess I make the playoffs?

Ranked 113, I guess I make the playoffs?
- stashu

Thanks for adding to the discussion
- Slump Buster

C'mon smart guy, enlighten us. I regularly listen to the Toronto stations and even they don't think they will get that much for him. The number of suitors, his cap number and his limited no-trade clause are prohibitive.
- Slump Buster

So you think Toronto would even consider trading one of the best scorers in the league for a late first, a 2nd, a prospect who has little value at this point and retain 2.5 million of his salary on top of it? You then go on to saying you'd trade your 2016 first which will almost definitely be a lotto pick probably top 3. Arent you guys rebuilding and didnt you just give up two of your best prospects on wing along with a first?

I get it, and obviously have to trust in "my" GM...I just had such hopes for Armia.

But to say he didn't have drive or didn't show anything is a bit too far, IMO, since it's not like he had opportunity.
- stashu

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...s/pdisplay.php?pid=130454

screams 3rd liner