Relevant: Gardiner getting undressed 3 times on the same play:
http://www.gfycat.com/Ima...tiveGrandioseChimneyswift

Relevant: Gardiner getting undressed 3 times on the same play:
http://www.gfycat.com/Ima...tiveGrandioseChimneyswift
- rangerdanger94

that's hilarious.... great post.

seriously... there's one factor which I don't believe anyone has mentioned - and which is definitely relevant.

which d-man plays in front of which goalie... .in short because there's an all-world press assault being waged for Carey Price as MVP and Vezina winner... one would have to believe that he bails out his defense pretty regularly. Not picking on Subban here.. .just using the example.

same can be said clearly for Rinne behind Weber, Quick behind Doughty.

that's why for me Giordano is this year's best... probably of any of the guys that are legitimately in the conversation, he's got the weakest overall d-core that he leads, he's probably on the least talented team - except perhaps Ottawa/Karlsson, and he unlike Karlsson is a true all-around threat.

Giordano is clearly a team leader, and is on the ice in every key situation.

giordano, oh wait he plays on a bad "corsi" team so nobody considers him. Puts karlsson first cause he puts up points, giordano was first for points before he got injured, and can actually defend
- Bigern4MVP

Anyone and their dog can create a top 5 list.

Top 5 forwards masquerading as Dmen

1. Erik Karlsson

2. Kris Letang

3. Brent Burns

4. Big Buff

5. Your grandmother

that's hilarious.... great post.

seriously... there's one factor which I don't believe anyone has mentioned - and which is definitely relevant.

which d-man plays in front of which goalie... .in short because there's an all-world press assault being waged for Carey Price as MVP and Vezina winner... one would have to believe that he bails out his defense pretty regularly. Not picking on Subban here.. .just using the example.

same can be said clearly for Rinne behind Weber, Quick behind Doughty.

that's why for me Giordano is this year's best... probably of any of the guys that are legitimately in the conversation, he's got the weakest overall d-core that he leads, he's probably on the least talented team - except perhaps Ottawa/Karlsson, and he unlike Karlsson is a true all-around threat.

Giordano is clearly a team leader, and is on the ice in every key situation.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I think these top lists are stupid. At the end of the day every defenseman has his strengths and weaknesses and has his off days. No defenseman is clearly better than any other in this class and that's all it is...a "class" of elite defensemen. And there are more than just 5. Weber, Subban, Karlsson, Letang, Giordano, Suter, Hedman, OEL, McDonagh, Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc. are all great defensemen and some have their advantages over others and every hockey fan would pick a different one to build their team around depending on what they value most whether it's skating, offense, defense, youth, flair, size, physicality, durability, etc.

I wish you said a single smart thing or brought up a single valid argument for me to say the same...

Maybe when you'll be all grown up one day
- Habs-Sam

That'll be the day!

that's hilarious.... great post.

seriously... there's one factor which I don't believe anyone has mentioned - and which is definitely relevant.

which d-man plays in front of which goalie... .in short because there's an all-world press assault being waged for Carey Price as MVP and Vezina winner... one would have to believe that he bails out his defense pretty regularly. Not picking on Subban here.. .just using the example.

same can be said clearly for Rinne behind Weber, Quick behind Doughty.

that's why for me Giordano is this year's best... probably of any of the guys that are legitimately in the conversation, he's got the weakest overall d-core that he leads, he's probably on the least talented team - except perhaps Ottawa/Karlsson, and he unlike Karlsson is a true all-around threat.

Giordano is clearly a team leader, and is on the ice in every key situation.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Thing about Price is, MTL is a poor possession team, meaning he does face a lot of rubber and that MTL really shouldn't be as high as they are, maybe not even a legit Playoff team without him.

As for the Gardiner post, yeah, that stuff happens, but if he's a positive possession player, it's not happening enough to matter - which is where a Confirmation Bias comes into play. And keep in mind it may very much matter on the play or game it happened, but I am talking long-term here.

I think these top lists are stupid. At the end of the day every defenseman has his strengths and weaknesses and has his off days. No defenseman is clearly better than any other in this class and that's all it is...a "class" of elite defensemen. And there are more than just 5. Weber, Subban, Karlsson, Letang, Giordano, Suter, Hedman, OEL, McDonagh, Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc. are all great defensemen and some have their advantages over others and every hockey fan would pick a different one to build their team around depending on what they value most whether it's skating, offense, defense, youth, flair, size, physicality, durability, etc.
- rangerdanger94

I think you're starting to take my point with this post in the first place.

I think you're starting to take my point with this post in the first place.
- James_Tanner

Yea I hear you.

Apparently Duclair might be healthy scratched

Letang is tied for fifth , too funny ...

In order of who I would build my team around (not necessarily the 'best' Dmen):

1. Weber
2. Karlsson
3. Doughty
4. Giordano
5. Subban

In order of who I would build my team around (not necessarily the 'best' Dmen):

1. Doughty
2. Weber
3. Giordano
4. Keith
5. McDonagh
6. Suter
7. Pietrangelo

It seems like every Cup winning team these days has a serious, minute chomping guy that's great in both zones. It's why I feel guys like Mike Green and Erik Karlsson will never win a cup, unless a team can bury them a little.

In order of who I would build my team around (not necessarily the 'best' Dmen):

1. Doughty
2. Weber
3. Giordano
4. Keith
5. McDonagh
6. Suter
7. Pietrangelo

It seems like every Cup winning team these days has a serious, minute chomping guy that's great in both zones. It's why I feel guys like Mike Green and Erik Karlsson will never win a cup, unless a team can bury them a little.
- prock

Only two of those players won a cup. And Karlsson is a great defender. Mike Green, eh, not so much.

Only two of those players won a cup. And Karlsson is a great defender. Mike Green, eh, not so much.
- AlfieFever

pr0ck is just a Sens hater so anytime a Sens player is mentioned or the team itself, he'll make sure to bash them...it's his reason to exist...

Only two of those players won a cup. And Karlsson is a great defender. Mike Green, eh, not so much.
- AlfieFever

Yes, but they're all great on both sides of the ice. the KIND of dman that always tend to be on cup winners these days.

Karlsson is no better than Mike Green defensively.

In fact, with the Caps bringing a little more of a focus on defense these days, Mike Green is better than Karlsson defensively.

Yes, but they're all great on both sides of the ice. the KIND of dman that always tend to be on cup winners these days.

Karlsson is no better than Mike Green defensively.

In fact, with the Caps bringing a little more of a focus on defense these days, Mike Green is better than Karlsson defensively.
- prock

*grabs popcorn*

Karlsson

I'm sure Orr played a lot of key shifts in the defensive zone too, which Karlsson does poorly or not much at all. It's why he has incredibly minimal PK time.
- sbroads24

No, he has minimal PK time because he is already playing over 20min of even strength time and more than 50% of the PP time. No need to add another 5min of PK time per game.

He is hands down the best D in the league and getting the puck out of his own end. Why bother playing D when the puck is on your stick in the offensive zone?

No, he has minimal PK time because he is already playing over 20min of even strength time and more than 50% of the PP time. No need to add another 5min of PK time per game.

He is hands down the best D in the league and getting the puck out of his own end. Why bother playing D when the puck is on your stick in the offensive zone?
- ...sbs138...

Every defenseman gets hemmed in his end every game for a shift or 2 at a time. This whole concept that players with 55% Corsi are somehow so good offensively that the puck is literally never in their own zone is a joke. If you interpret that 55% Corsi as literally 55% of the time he's on the ice as a pure possession in the offensive zone he's still playing defense 45% of the time.

Every defenseman gets hemmed in his end every game for a shift or 2 at a time. This whole concept that players with 55% Corsi are somehow so good offensively that the puck is literally never in their own zone is a joke. If you interpret that 55% Corsi as literally 55% of the time he's on the ice as a pure possession in the offensive zone he's still playing defense 45% of the time.
- rangerdanger94

Yes. Thank you. This whole idea that someone doesn't have to be able to defend because they have good possession numbers is so unbelievably stupid, and shows just how little someone understands the game, and the numbers. Anybody who uses this argument should probably take up a sport easier to understand. Like darts. And even then, they should buy a calculator, because they're obviously still too stupid to count.