Hence my new location
- A_SteamingLombardi

Which other sites are useful then?

Which other sites are useful then?
- Retinalz

i could recommend a few to nucker that will help relieve his tension. seems like he could use an outlet to let his emotions burst

Which other sites are useful then?
- Retinalz

Most porn sites.

He had a freak injury. This is the same fanbase(some of them) that thought Bieksa would never play a full season after his freak injuries and said Kesler won't last a full season after he got traded.
- Nucker101

Gio has missed almost 20 games per season over the past 4 years (minus the lockout year) It's becoming an issue but if his points totals are high again this season it may not be the focus if he is out for 1/4 of the season.

Bieksa HASN'T played a full season since 2006-07. Came close in 2011-12 but really these 'freak' injuries and many 'maintenance days' were becoming all too frequent. We'll see of he's in a better position to be healthier in ANA but it's doubtful.

I have to admit as much as I can't stand Kesler he has been a horse in the past back to back to back 82 game seasons in Van at one time but after 2012 some sporatic injuries. To be expected though from the back to back to back full seasons and playoffs but it was becoming more frequent after 2012 even though he did break 70 games his last 2/3 years in Van. I kind of figured he'd have close to a full season in ANA as Torts wasn't playing him 28min/game and blocking shots the whole time. We'll see what this upcoming season will bring for Kes now that he is going to have to carry more of the load as Getzloaf and Perry downswing a bit. I'll admit Kes looked pretty decent in ANA last season but his style of play isn't condusive to full seasons anymore. Last year may have been a one-off.

Gio has missed almost 20 games per season over the past 4 years (minus the lockout year) It's becoming an issue but if his points totals are high again this season it may not be the focus if he is out for 1/4 of the season.

Bieksa HASN'T played a full season since 2006-07. Came close in 2011-12 but really these 'freak' injuries and many 'maintenance days' were becoming all too frequent. We'll see of he's in a better position to be healthier in ANA but it's doubtful.

I have to admit as much as I can't stand Kesler he has been a horse in the past back to back to back 82 game seasons in Van at one time but after 2012 some sporatic injuries. To be expected though from the back to back to back full seasons and playoffs but it was becoming more frequent after 2012 even though he did break 70 games his last 2/3 years in Van. I kind of figured he'd have close to a full season in ANA as Torts wasn't playing him 28min/game and blocking shots the whole time. We'll see what this upcoming season will bring for Kes now that he is going to have to carry more of the load as Getzloaf and Perry downswing a bit. I'll admit Kes looked pretty decent in ANA last season but his style of play isn't condusive to full seasons anymore. Last year may have been a one-off.
- LordHumungous

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.

at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.

at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.
- RealityChecker

Totally agree. The handcuffing of teams due to player demands once they want out is ridiculous. An item that should be a topic of discussion every year at the GM meetings. At least make them submit a proper amount of teams if they want out. One team in the Kesler deal was an absolute joke.

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.
at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.
- RealityChecker

SPOT ON

Totally agree. The handcuffing of teams due to player demands once they want out is ridiculous. An item that should be a topic of discussion every year at the GM meetings. At least make them submit a proper amount of teams if they want out. One team in the Kesler deal was an absolute joke.
- LordHumungous

I just don't get why the league hasn't done anything about that situation. Every GM should be on the same page on this issue.

If this can only be done on a CBA level, the league missed a big opportunity last negotiations.

What a waste. In terms of rebuild, that screwed the Canucks more than any bad signing or trade.

I just don't get why the league hasn't done anything about that situation. Every GM should be on the same page on this issue.

If this can only be done on a CBA level, the league missed a big opportunity last negotiations.

What a waste. In terms of rebuild, that screwed the Canucks more than any bad signing or trade.
- RealityChecker

Just word it into their contracts, if they want a NTC, fine, but if you ask for a trade then you can be traded to any team. The team gave him a NTC in good faith. If the team asks him to wave his NTC then he can give a list of teams.

Hence my new location
- A_SteamingLombardi

LOLOL

Just word it into their contracts, if they want a NTC, fine, but if you ask for a trade then you can be traded to any team. The team gave him a NTC in good faith. If the team asks him to wave his NTC then he can give a list of teams.
- A_SteamingLombardi

The issue that I could see is that NTCs/NMCs may have standard language just like the SPC (standard player contract). In order to change those, you need agreement from the PA which would never happen absent it being part of the larger negotiations of the CBA.

If those clauses can be written individually, well then the blame lies with the GM.

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.

at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.
- RealityChecker

As far as the wingers go, that criticism came only after his quality of line mates was reduced. When he was playing with Raymond/Samuelson, he produced a lot more than with Higgins/Hansen. I'm not surprised he is "using" his wingers more paired with Silfverberg and Belesky.

I disagree completely on the NTC. If it is bargained in good faith by both parties, then you need to respect it. A NTC is a way to give players power over their future and is usually used to bring down salary.

I don't understand the vitriol directed at players for exercising their right as negotiated in their contract. Blame the GM if you wish but a player earned the right to it.

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.

at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.
- RealityChecker

Great idea. I would suggest that ALL of the NTC or NMC parameters are negotiated right off the bat and they become part of the contract so there is no confusion later - or a player taking advantage of the fact that he only wants to move to one or two teams (as was seemingly the case with the Kesler scenario). It's quite surprising that this aspect has not really been addressed by the Board of Governors. NMC and NTC seem to be fairly nebulous and it often comes down to a player handicapping a team's ability to properly negotiate any sort of player transactions.

Ideally, that would be the way to go; however, I agree with you, that there should be nullification of the NMC if the player actually demands a trade first. All bets should be off the table and the team allowed to administrate a trade how they see fit.

You win the post of the day...so far. And I love your analogy with Eva.

Nuckers a good guy all in all, and a contradiction in posts from one day to another. But his underlying position has always been the same...he doesn't like this management team, period. And that's his prerogative, but it would be nice if he toned down the rhetoric and discussed things in a more meaningful way instead of baiting, trolling his own team and fans.
- Makita

Well said, Your Honour.

The issue that I could see is that NTCs/NMCs may have standard language just like the SPC (standard player contract). In order to change those, you need agreement from the PA which would never happen absent it being part of the larger negotiations of the CBA.

If those clauses can be written individually, well then the blame lies with the GM.
- RealityChecker

We see players with different NTC's all the time, I'm sure every one is clearly defined in each contract.

Miller for example can submit a list of 6 teams he will not accept a trade to.
Burrows,Higgins,Hansen,Edler,Hamhuis and Sedin have full NTC and would have full power to accept a trade. Same with what Kesler had.

Vrbata has a partial but it isn't publicly known how much power he has.

Great idea. I would suggest that ALL of the NTC or NMC parameters are negotiated right off the bat and they become part of the contract so there is no confusion later - or a player taking advantage of the fact that he only wants to move to one or two teams (as was seemingly the case with the Kesler scenario). It's quite surprising that this aspect has not really been addressed by the Board of Governors. NMC and NTC seem to be fairly nebulous and it often comes down to a player handicapping a team's ability to properly negotiate any sort of player transactions.

Ideally, that would be the way to go; however, I agree with you, that there should be nullification of the NMC if the player actually demands a trade first. All bets should be off the table and the team allowed to administrate a trade how they see fit.
- Zogg

I don't understand where you guys are getting this idea from?

Of course those parameters are decided before time.


Also wasn't it widely reported that Kesler had okayed a trade to Chi and Pit as well? I have no idea how many teams he okayed but I don't remember anything ever saying it was Anh or nothing.

As far as the wingers go, that criticism came only after his quality of line mates was reduced. When he was playing with Raymond/Samuelson, he produced a lot more than with Higgins/Hansen. I'm not surprised he is "using" his wingers more paired with Silfverberg and Belesky.

I disagree completely on the NTC. If it is bargained in good faith by both parties, then you need to respect it. A NTC is a way to give players power over their future and is usually used to bring down salary.

I don't understand the vitriol directed at players for exercising their right as negotiated in their contract. Blame the GM if you wish but a player earned the right to it.
- belcherbd

I agree that the NTC clause should remain as is, especially when negotiated in good faith. However if a player is demanding a trade to certain teams I think the league should step in to ensure fair value is given. Similar to when the Blue Jays traded with the Marlins a few years back, Joe Torre reviewed the trade to ensure the Marlins were getting fair value.
Once a player demands a trade, all teams that want the player should submit their deals and if the league reviews and sees the team getting low balled from the player's preferred destination, the NTC should be voided. If fair value is given, then it all works out. This added risk would ensure that if a player really wants to move, they should provide a larger list to ensure they go where they want instead of just one team.

Early stage theory.. haha

As far as the wingers go, that criticism came only after his quality of line mates was reduced. When he was playing with Raymond/Samuelson, he produced a lot more than with Higgins/Hansen. I'm not surprised he is "using" his wingers more paired with Silfverberg and Belesky.

I disagree completely on the NTC. If it is bargained in good faith by both parties, then you need to respect it. A NTC is a way to give players power over their future and is usually used to bring down salary.

I don't understand the vitriol directed at players for exercising their right as negotiated in their contract. Blame the GM if you wish but a player earned the right to it.
- belcherbd

Where I disagree with you is when the player wants out and handcuffs the team (eg the Kesler situation). The player has every right to say no if the team wants to trade him but when he wants out, he shouldn't just be able to pick the team he wants.

In my opinion, a NTC means that a player has chosen where he wants to live and play for a certain time period. A GM cannot trade him during that time period. However, once he asks out, he should be "reasonable," as to his destination.

i have said several times and you know that i agree with a lot of the substance of what you say. even with respect to MG (that'll win me a lot of fans).

what i don't like is the attitude that you've come to develop. while i see red flags and warning signs just like you, you just seem to be setting up an "i told you so," response. that just seems childish.

simply put, you come across as an 8 year old who flips the game board over when he thinks that he's losing.

the difference here is that we don't control and can't control what's happening. so basically, what i'm saying is that you should take a deep breath and relax. let things play out.

either way, this is a multi-year plan. flipping out like this now, will leave you no room to flip out worse in the future
- RealityChecker

Where I disagree with you is when the player wants out and handcuffs the team (eg the Kesler situation). The player has every right to say no if the team wants to trade him but when he wants out, he shouldn't just be able to pick the team he wants.

In my opinion, a NTC means that a player has chosen where he wants to live and play for a certain time period. A GM cannot trade him during that time period. However, once he asks out, he should be "reasonable," as to his destination.
- RealityChecker

Fair enough, agree to disagree. I think both parties benefit from a NTC, so it seems strange that one side would be able to cry foul. If a GM wants a player to sign, offer him more money and a less powerful NTC otherwise live with it.

We see players with different NTC's all the time, I'm sure every one is clearly defined in each contract.

Miller for example can submit a list of 6 teams he will not accept a trade to.
Burrows,Higgins,Hansen,Edler,Hamhuis and Sedin have full NTC and would have full power to accept a trade. Same with what Kesler had.

Vrbata has a partial but it isn't publicly known how much power he has.
- belcherbd

I understand the concept of having a certain number of teams list but can those clauses be modified for various scenarios i.e. where the player asks out. That s where I'm unsure.

If they can be modified in that manner, I don't understand why GMs haven't done so.

aside from his attitude, i love kesler's game and competitiveness. he seems to be using his wingers more (at least statistically speaking) and is a good fit in Anh.

pivoting the kesler discussion to NTCs, i don't understand why GMs or the league as a whole (last CBA) didn't clarify NTCs.

imo once a player asks for a trade, his NTC should be null and void. the clause is meant to ensure that the player stays with the team he signed with. if he wants out, this effectively means that he wants to rescind that clause.

at the very least, gm's should clarify that in those situations a player should have to submit a 10 team list.
- RealityChecker

Completely agree!!

I understand the concept of having a certain number of teams list but can those clauses be modified for various scenarios i.e. where the player asks out. That s where I'm unsure.

If they can be modified in that manner, I don't understand why GMs haven't done so.
- RealityChecker

I see, I have no clue but I don't see why adding that clause would be any more difficult than other parameters. I do know some NTC's expire after they have been moved once ( Richards I believe) and other stick with the player regardless ( St. Louis)

I understand the concept of having a certain number of teams list but can those clauses be modified for various scenarios i.e. where the player asks out. That s where I'm unsure.

If they can be modified in that manner, I don't understand why GMs haven't done so.
- RealityChecker

I don't think a player would want to sign it if that clause was in there. The power goes back to the team and I imagine it would open a can of worms regarding the definition of asking out, whether through comments/performance/etc. A player could make it very well known they are unhappy but not ask for a trade to try to get around the clause

I see, I have no clue but I don't see why adding that clause would be any more difficult than other parameters. I do know some NTC's expire after they have been moved once ( Richards I believe) and other stick with the player regardless ( St. Louis)
- belcherbd

I agree. Just seems weird that GMs haven't foreseen that situation and made provisions to deal with it. That's why I thought it may be a CBA issue.